D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Spells Per Day Level Substitution

[honeybunch]

I'm going to be playing a pixie sorcerer in an upcoming campaign (my first, actually), but there's something I'm somewhat confused about.

Because of racial bonuses, I have a +8 Charisma modifier. This enables me to use a lot of spells per day. However, a number of the spells per day I can use are higher level than the spells I actually have. The highest level spell I have is level 1, but I can use one level six spell per day.

So, what I'm wondering is if I can use a level one spell in that level six spell per day slot. I found the following text in the PHB1 on page 178, under Spell Slots:

Spell Slots: The various character class tables in Chapter 3:
Classes show how many spells of each level a character can cast per
day. These openings for daily spells are called spell slots. A
spellcaster always has the option to fill a higher-level spell slot with
a lower-level spell. For example, a 7th-level wizard has at least one
4th-level spell slot and two 3rd-level spell slots (see Table 3–18: The
Wizard, page 55). However, the character could choose to prepare
three 3rd-level spells instead, filling the 4th-level slot with a 3rdlevel
spell. A spellcaster who lacks a high enough ability score to cast
spells that would otherwise be his or her due still gets the slots but
must fill them with spells of lower level.

Now, the fact that this is worded as "spellcaster" rather than "wizard" makes me think that I can put a first level spell into a sixth level slot, but neither my DM or I am sure about this, because the overall section name is "Preparing Wizard Spells".

I looked around, and couldn't find a similar section for the sorcerer, so I'm kind of in the dark here.

Would someone please illuminate me? Thanks in advance.

 

[Dandu]

I have always seen it as working that way for sorcerers too.

If you take the Heighten Spell feat, you won't have to worry about this at all.

You don't get access to higher level spell slots until you get access to spells of that level though.

 

[Croesus]

Because of racial bonuses, I have a +8 Charisma modifier. This enables me to use a lot of spells per day. However, a number of the spells per day I can use are higher level than the spells I actually have. The highest level spell I have is level 1, but I can use one level six spell per day.

So, what I'm wondering is if I can use a level one spell in that level six spell per day slot. I found the following text in the PHB1 on page 178, under Spell Slots:...snip...

I'm guessing you are referring to the bonus spells table on page 8 of the 3.5 PH. If so, then you only gain the bonus spells if you are already of sufficient level to cast that level spell.

At 22 Charisma, you gain the following bonus spells per day:
1st - 2
2nd - 2
3rd - 1
4th - 1
5th - 1
6th - 1

But here's the catch. As a sorcerer, you cannot cast 2nd level spells until you are a 4th level sorcerer. So you don't gain those bonus spells until then. You have to be a 6th level sorcerer before you gain the bonus 3rd level spell, and so on.

So if you are a 1st level Pixie Sorcerer, you would have the base 5 cantrips, 3 1st level spells per day, plus 2 bonus 1st level spells for Charisma.

 

[Runestar]

So, what I'm wondering is if I can use a level one spell in that level six spell per day slot. I found the following text in the PHB1 on page 178, under Spell Slots:

I am afraid not. You get a bonus 6th lv slot only when you are capable of actually casting 6th lv spells (ie: when you are a 12th lv sorc). Sorry, at 5th lv, you are stuck with 1st lv spells.

Must you play a sorc? Pixie's +4LA really delays your spellcasting. Sure, you get a lot of cool stuff like flight and perma-invis, but I don't see you contributing much to the party. Most of the time, you are dead weight.

 

[honeybunch]

I'm guessing you are referring to the bonus spells table on page 8 of the 3.5 PH. If so, then you only gain the bonus spells if you are already of sufficient level to cast that level spell.

I am afraid not. You get a bonus 6th lv slot only when you are capable of actually casting 6th lv spells (ie: when you are a 12th lv sorc). Sorry, at 5th lv, you are stuck with 1st lv spells.

Aw well. A bit disappointing, but I suppose it's understandable.

Thanks for your answers, even if they're not what I wanted to hear.

Must you play a sorc? Pixie's +4LA really delays your spellcasting. Sure, you get a lot of cool stuff like flight and perma-invis, but I don't see you contributing much to the party. Most of the time, you are dead weight.

Really? I mean, I don't know, but having a small heavy crossbow that does 1d8 damage seems like it would keep me pretty useful even at the lower levels. Also, pixies get 10 damage reduction and 15 spell resistence, which seems pretty powerful at lower levels.

Of course, this is the first time I'm playing a campaign (played a single session of 4E a few weeks ago), so I'm pretty ignorant about how combat will play out. Any advice is appreciated. I just want to make sure I understand it.

 

[Runestar]

Really? I mean, I don't know, but having a small heavy crossbow that does 1d8 damage seems like it would keep me pretty useful even at the lower levels. Also, pixies get 10 damage reduction and 15 spell resistence, which seems pretty powerful at lower levels.

The issue is that dr/sr don't really do anything to help the party defeat their foes any faster. Plus, you have 1 HD, even with dr10, one luck hit is all it takes to do you in.

If you wish to play a sorc, I would recommend a LA+0 race, so you can start out as a 5th lv sorc, thus getting more useful spells to play around with.

If you are dead set on playing a pixie, I would suggest a combat-oriented class to take advantage of your invis, such as rogue or swordsage.

Also remember that as per the errata, pixies get weapon finesse as a bonus feat in addition to dodge.

 

[Dandu]

Really? I mean, I don't know, but having a small heavy crossbow that does 1d8 damage seems like it would keep me pretty useful even at the lower levels.

No.

Also, pixies get 10 damage reduction and 15 spell resistence, which seems pretty powerful at lower levels.

It keeps you alive. Now, please explain how it helps keep your allies alive, and how it helps you complete any missions you come across?

In other words, how will you be at all relevant to the situations that the party will be involved in?

 

[honeybunch]

The issue is that dr/sr don't really do anything to help the party defeat their foes any faster. Plus, you have 1 HD, even with dr10, one luck hit is all it takes to do you in.

If you wish to play a sorc, I would recommend a LA+0 race, so you can start out as a 5th lv sorc, thus getting more useful spells to play around with.

If you are dead set on playing a pixie, I would suggest a combat-oriented class to take advantage of your invis, such as rogue or swordsage.

Also remember that as per the errata, pixies get weapon finesse as a bonus feat in addition to dodge.

Hmm.

Well, I'm not really trying to optimize my character, but I definitely don't want to be a dead weight to the party either. If you tell me I will be a dead weight then I guess I... should probably change my class.

No.

It keeps you alive. Now, please explain how it helps keep your allies alive, and how it helps you complete any missions you come across?

In other words, how will you be at all relevant to the situations that the party will be involved in?

I appreciate the advice, but I feel like I'm detecting a little hostility behind your words. Please keep in mind that I am a new player, and am asking out of ignorance, not any desire to hold my party back.

If I'm wrong, I apologize. In either case, I really do appreciate your intent to improve my character and the capability of my party.

 

[Runestar]

We are harsh only because we care.

My take on the pixie is that it really becomes useful only when you have at least 4-6 class lvs under your belt. Early on, your options are fairly limited because you have so few class lvs, and the pixie's special abilities are more defensive in nature.

So you risk becoming a tortoise with a toothpick, in that while you are hard to kill, nobody wants to waste their time targeting you because you aren't perceived as a threat.

Closest thing I can find is this pixie handbook. Hope it is of some help.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871070/The_Pixie_Handbookhttp://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871070/The_Pixie_Handbook

Just curious, what lv is your campaign? How many class lvs are you starting out with again?

 

[honeybunch]

We are harsh only because we care.

I wasn't suggesting you were being harsh, but I appreciate the sentiments!

So you risk becoming a tortoise with a toothpick, in that while you are hard to kill, nobody wants to waste their time targeting you because you aren't perceived as a threat.

I admit, that does not sound like fun.

Closest thing I can find is this pixie handbook. Hope it is of some help.
http://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871070/The_Pixie_Handbookhttp://community.wizards.com/go/thread/view/75882/19871070/The_Pixie_Handbook

I will definitely check that out.

Just curious, what lv is your campaign? How many class lvs are you starting out with again?

At this point, it is variable, because not everyone has selected their races. Another player is going to be playing a Doppelganger, which will also be a +4LA, but I have no idea if Doppelgangers would have the same problems that pixies would.