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Message: <blockquote data-quote="harpy" data-source="post: 4931745" data-attributes="member: 85243">I've been trying to figure out what really happens when you shift the size of a creature.You have the spell Enlarge Person which says "The target gains a +2 size bonus to Strength, a -2 size penalty to Dexterity (to a minimum of 1), and a -1 penalty on attack rolls and AC due to its increased size."In the Monster Manual on page 291 there is table 4-2 where it says from Medium to Large the creature gets +8 Strength and -2 Dex and +4 Con and +2 Natural Armor.Then we go to page 89 of the 3.5 FAQ which says, "The changes to statistics by size indicated in Table 4–2 in the MM are primarily a guideline for monster creation, rather than hard-and-fast rules. Although many size-change effectsmimic the numbers given on that table, each such effect has its own unique properties that don’t necessarily match the table. (The enlarge spell, for example, grants only a +2 bonus to Strength, in contrast to the +8 bonus listed on Table 4–2.)"So at least from the FAQ it sounds like Enlarge and Reduce Person spells are adding a bit of something extra to the shifting in size categories.  That the changes to Str and Dex are more flavorful, rather than reflecting a rigidly scaled system of shifting size categories.  Likewise on page 296 of the MM is table 5-1, which clearly states in the text that the Str, Dex and Con range of values are only suggested values.  Combining Tables 4-2 and 5-1 and you see why those are composed as they are.  Going from Medium to Large gives you +8 Str because it's assumed that your generic large creature will have at least an 18 Str, starting from a base of 10.So as far as the MM goes, it is all just guidelines on values for creating monsters.  What I'm trying to do is figure out what values are definitive for shifting size categories.  There are lots of size tables and rules sprinkled through the books, but none of them seem to be the definitive table showing absolute values for the system.There are some categories that get repeated over and over again, such as you always have a size modifier that affects your AC and Attack Rolls.  When I look over all of the rule entries I could find in the three core books it sounds to me that the definitive categories which  are always affected are:ACAttackGrappleHideSpaceReachCarry CapacityNatural Attack dice scalingManufactured Weapon scalingWhat seems to be left open to "flavor" are:Str adjustmentsDex AdjustmentsCon AdjustmentsNatural Armor AdjustmentsSpeedSo you could have a medium creature change to a large creature, but still just have average Abilities of 10 across the board and no Natural Armor.I wish there was a more definitive pronouncement, but I can't find anything being added in any of the other monster books or even Savage Species.Do people agree on my reading of this?  Is there something I'm missing?</blockquote>

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