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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Belzbet" data-source="post: 5627185" data-attributes="member: 6678902">I WOULD DEFINETELY consider cleric AND paladin associated class levels (especially beause of the Cha). I mean succubi (and most other fiends) have spells and they have good melee abilites. Namely you CANT easily categorize classes as associated or not. I mean with this build you should consider those classes accociated.   The DM decides whats associated or not this is a case where we can say 'YES" those classes ARE ASSOCIATED (why wouldnt they be and, if not, then what STANDARD classses would be considered associated for the succubi???? A sorcerer? No since a succubi has just as much potentuial to be a good cleric as a sorc. so If one says that a sorc. is associated then that would imply that a cleric is (I mean a higher bonus in Cha than in Wis is no reason to say that sorc. is associated and cleric is not). ALso Fighter? No if fighter is associated than paladin will be (I mean what would make a better paladin of slaughter than a succubi (or a demon in general)?).  I have ran into this problem with some monsters (especially fiends since many dont get cleric spells or sorc. spells per se they get spell like abilites, and they have Full BA (for HD) and they have all sorts of other abilites and ability bonus that they DO NOT FALL INTO ONE CATEGORY. I mean a fiend can take both spellcaster classes and melee classes and thrive so I would say almost any standard class is assocaited for a succubi (except  Rogue, monk and maybe Druid for flavor purposes but paldin makes sense to me and is flavorful). One thing to consider is if the caster level of the monsters spell-like abilites INCREASE with HD if so then it gets better abilites by taking ANY class (although many spell-like abilites only increase with racial HD I house rule it otherwise, although for a one time moster that is not really important, but many of my PC's are monsters so I house rule that their spell-like abilites increase with ANY HD they get).I know it is easiest when the monster actually ALREADY has cleric/wizard/etc spells (not simply spelllike abilites).  Since taking classes of cleric or wizard, etc will directly add on to the caster level and spell prowess that you already have... But if the ONLY time we could say that wizard is an associated class for a monster is WHEN that class ALREADY can cast wizard spells then that would mean that a psion is NOT an associated class for a mind flayer since mind flayers DO NOT possess psion spells (they possess psionic-like abilites). ALso in the MM they show that sorc. IS associated for a mind flayer that leads me to think that cleric IS asscociated for a succubi (since succubus's HAVE cleric spell like abilites and a bonus to wis and a HUGE bonus to cha. I am not familiar with the lichfiend but the lich get bonus to wis and cha as well.. and the lich was desiged with a wizard and less so a cleric in mind...)...Then again its all about how you see it... this is what i would rule anyway...</blockquote>

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