D&D 3E/3.5 [3.5] Summon Treasure IV and III

[Jack Simth]

Am I blind, or did I just find a loophole that (if permitted) lets almost any Core Caster get cheap, risk-free, low-value (for the level) treasures?

We start with the Summoning subschool of Conjouration:

Summoning

A summoning spell instantly brings a creature or object to a place you designate. When the spell ends or is dispelled, a summoned creature is instantly sent back to where it came from, but a summoned object is not sent back unless the spell description specifically indicates this. A summoned creature also goes away if it is killed or if its hit points drop to 0 or lower. It is not really dead. It takes 24 hours for the creature to reform, during which time it can’t be summoned again.

When the spell that summoned a creature ends and the creature disappears, all the spells it has cast expire. A summoned creature cannot use any innate summoning abilities it may have, and it refuses to cast any spells that would cost it XP, or to use any spell-like abilities that would cost XP if they were spells.

(Emphasis added)

(You can probably see where this is going already)

So where's that useful? Well, we start with Summon Monster IV, and summon a very useless critter: a Memphit. Why a Memphit? Because it has "Treasure: Standard", and is CR 3.

Not to leave the Druid and Ranger out, we also look at Summon Nature's Ally III, and the Satyr (without pipes), for it's "Treasure: Standard" at CR 2.

Now, to be "fair", under Monsters with Treasure, the books say:

When generating an encounter dealing with monsters away from their lair, remember that a creature only takes what it can easily carry with it. In the case of a creature that cannot use treasure, that generally means nothing. The monster safeguards or hides its treasure as well as it can, but it leaves it behind when outside the lair. Intelligent creatures that own useful, portable treasure (such as magic items) tend to carry and use these, leaving bulky items at home. Treasure can include coins, goods, and items. Creatures can have varying amounts of each, as follows.

(Emphasis added)

So if you've summoned a critter, it's away from it's lair, so it has some treasure with it (if it can use treasure, which a Memphit or a Satyr usually can). You summon it, order it to give you everything it has with it, and let the Summon expire. For the cost of a 4th (or 3rd) level spell, you now have a CR 3 (or 2) treasure drop.

So a Cleric or Wizard-7, Sorcerer-8, Druid-5, Ranger-11/12 (depending on Wis), or a Bard-10/11 (depending on Cha) can have potentially uncapped wealth, for no risk, during down-time.

Outside of perfectly reasonable DM fiat, house-rules, and thrown books to the contrary, are there any particular holes in this method (oh yes, and do note that the Druid can spontaneously do this with any remaining spell slots of 3rd level or above at the end of an adventuring day)?

Side note: Any Summon Monster or Summon Nature's Ally spell above that level also includes critters that have treasure. You basically just need to be able to talk to them to have them do "other actions".

 

[AuraSeer]

Sorry, no. This was covered in Sage Advice. When a summoned creature vanishes, all objects that came with it go back with it.

The line about "summoned objects" applies only to effects that bring in an object directly, like the bardic summon instrument.

 

[Jack Simth]

Sorry, no. This was covered in Sage Advice. When a summoned creature vanishes, all objects that came with it go back with it.

The line about "summoned objects" applies only to effects that bring in an object directly, like the bardic summon instrument.

I'm sure that's the intent, and I'm sure that's a very simple solution to the problem, and is a quite reasonable response.

However, I might point out that the Sage is not, of himself, the rules, and that there have been multiple sages, and that on occasion one sage has reversed an earlier sage's decisions - similar to how the FAQ periodically contradicted itself. It would have been trivial for WotC to errata the subschool entry to include a simple "(along with any objects brought with them)" in there. Yet they never did.

As written, are there any specific issues?

 

[Uder]

The main issue is the assumption that a summoned creature must possess treasure. The SRD doesn't have the context required, you'll need to read the DMG. Reading the SRD you might assume some robot-like administrator of the game is required to create or randomly roll standard treasure for any creature listed as possessing such. This is not the case. I know you don't want to hear about DM fiat, but all of the rules for treasure distribution are subject to DM fiat.

Other than that, if the DM decides the creature has possessions and you order them to drop the possessions, by RAW they stay. By the sage they go. The DM needs to pick a ruling.

 

[HoboGod]

Yeah, seriously, there's nothing in the books that requires the DM to put treasure on every monster that lists having treasures. In fact, the DMG gives the DM necessary permission to give more or less treasure than listed in the monster's entry. It's pretty easy to get away with cheese based on what a character is capable of giving herself, but trying to cheese it up with something the DM must choose to give you? Not very likely.

 

[jefgorbach]

interesting, but would the summoned creature arrive with whatever it might reasonably have been carrying at the time it was yanked to your location so at most you'd gain some armor or a weapon or two - which chances are wouldn't amount to much relative to the corresponding spell level.

 

[BryonD]

As written, are there any specific issues?

If you are being literal "as written" then you have not summoned any objects. You summoned a creature and it appears with whatever it had.

If you want to summon the creature's treasure then you would be specifically summoning those items. The summon monster spells don't allow that. Thus, the literal result of your interpretation would be that the mephit HAS treasure, but when you summoned him the treasure gets left behind laying on the ground wherever he was when you summoned him.

Either the gear is treated as part of the creature both coming AND going, or neither coming nor going.