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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Spyritwind" data-source="post: 1020442" data-attributes="member: 1912">Hmmmm I think the cleric needed help exactly for the reason that no one wanted to play them and I'm not sure they are too uber now.  Don't get me wrong, they are a good class now,  but before they sucked.Fighters usually still fight better and once a Wiz or Sorc gets high enough level they still out damage a cleric with spells by far.  The cleric still ends up being a support fighter, healer and some times a support offensive spell chucker at high levels.  A very versitle class yes, but master of none with the exception of defensive spells which may be an issue in regards to the defensiveness of arcane casters.I'm sure I can think of more later, but the one thing I'm shocked that they didn't change (and I know this has been an old argument from the begining of 3.0 that has been rehashed and argued about many times) is the 'Toughness' feat which isn't very tough.I've always gone with + 1 hp per level on a continuing basis.  By the time you are a low to mid level character 3 hps don't mean squat any more.  It's a great feat for the begining arcane spell chucker, but it'll bite you in the A$$ later when you think of the feat you wasted at first level that doesn't do much of any thing for you any more.  Granted, they confessed that not all feats were created equal ... and that is apparent.I'malso surprised they didn't flesh out the half orc, or perhaps I should say I wish they had not that I'm actualy surprised that they didn't.  Since strength is such an important component of many, but not all, character classes it's not that they are not powerful enough it's that they are borring as a race over all.When all you get is +2 Str and darkvision and you have communication penalties (-2 CHA) and less skill points (-2 INT) what kind of players/classes would pick such a race?  Only hack and slash min max fighters (not that they aren't fun to play some times) because there is no other reason to take the class.  Sure, sure there is the exceptional player that chooses a half orc for a non fighter class for actual 'role' playing purposes, but it is just that ... an exception.Look at the dwarf for instance.  Bonus CON, which is probably the second most important stat for most fighters unless you are a dex based fighter, you don't lose a skill point (no negative to INT) and you get a lot of other benifits as well, including dark vision.  Depending on how one looks at it the min/maxing might be from the player that picks the dwarf.The half orc from a game mechanic perspective is only good for 'Grond smash' characters.I't's not that the half orc isn't powerful enough for the fighter class it just needs some flavor or fleshing out IMO.  I'm not sure what the fix is, but some thing would be better than nothing.</blockquote>

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