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Character Builds & Optimization
[3.5, Tome of Battle] Need Balance & Build Advice on Swordsage
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<blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 5699885" data-attributes="member: 35909"><p>It wouldn't be overpowered with full BAB. But I don't think you need it much if you're not going TWF style, either. Just stick to standard action strikes and skirmish around the battlefield.</p><p></p><p>Stances:</p><p>Flame's Blessing is very meh early on, it comes into its own when it gives immunity ~level 16, before then it's alright, but far from a no-brainer choice.</p><p></p><p>Hunter's Sense is good, it only has 2 problems, IMO: 1) TC 1st level stances, unlike any other discipline, require a maneuver known. The ONLY TC maneuver you can learn w/o knowing one already at level 1 is Wolf Fang Strike (Claw at the Moon and Rabid Wolf Strike of 2nd level later on can become entry points). I guess if you want Sudden Leap this isn't an issue since you have to suck it up anyway. 2) Later on, the Hearing the Air stance just completely obsoletes it, and honestly...HtA is one of the best stances in the game, you'd be foolish not to get it.</p><p></p><p>Island of Blades is alright if you have sneak attack, otherwise it what? Lets you get +2 to hit a round sooner than you would have otherwise? If you have a rogue ally, it's much more helpful.</p><p></p><p>My favorite 1st level stance for a swordsage is child of shadow. You're going to be moving around anyway, so 20% miss chance is awesome and remains useful even at higher levels. I also really like Step of the Wind. Ignoring difficult terrain can be extremely helpful when it comes up, and you get bonuses in it, to boot!</p><p></p><p>Burning Blade: Good</p><p>MoPM: You already have a good will save, all this does is not fail on a 1. Pass.</p><p>Saph NM Blade: Having to beat AC twice for only +1d6 seems like a bad deal to me, unless the AC is abysmal. It's much better if you have sneak attack since it also flatfoots the person.</p><p>Counter Charge: It's outstanding!</p><p>Mighty Throw: It's handy, difficult to succeed on the check without trip optimization, but at least there's no drawback if you fail. Without Improved Trip, it's main use would be tactical, to toss an enemy into your friend's Entangle spell or something. Not bad, but also not essential.</p><p>Stone Bones: If the enemy makes a DC 11 int check (untrained Martial Lore), they know to just go full defensive for a round and wait it out. This also ages VERY poorly with levelling. I'd skip it.</p><p>Shadow Blade Tech: This is pretty good, lets you have two chances to hit someone. The only time to go for the cold damage is if both rolls are high but neither is a crit threat (or if both are...), you're mostly using this for the higher chance to hit.</p><p>WFS: I don't like it, but sometimes you may just find the need to get in two weak hits to fight off a mob of mooks. You CAN swap this out at level 4, so it's not that crippling to take.</p><p></p><p>I'd caution against Mo9, it's inferior to actually remaining a swordsage, and the feat costs are ridiculous (the example Mo9 didn't even qualify for the class legitimately with his feats!) and too all over the place to be helpful. See if the DM can at least drop the Improved Unarmed Strike pre-req. Or avoid the PrC. You need your feats, badly. Namely:</p><p></p><p><strong><u>Adaptive Style is an essential feat for the Swordsage, like Natural Spell is for Druids, except more so, because druids can technically function without Natural Spell. Take it at level 1. Take it take it take it take it take it!!!!</u></strong></p><p></p><p>I really cannot emphasize that last point enough.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="StreamOfTheSky, post: 5699885, member: 35909"] It wouldn't be overpowered with full BAB. But I don't think you need it much if you're not going TWF style, either. Just stick to standard action strikes and skirmish around the battlefield. Stances: Flame's Blessing is very meh early on, it comes into its own when it gives immunity ~level 16, before then it's alright, but far from a no-brainer choice. Hunter's Sense is good, it only has 2 problems, IMO: 1) TC 1st level stances, unlike any other discipline, require a maneuver known. The ONLY TC maneuver you can learn w/o knowing one already at level 1 is Wolf Fang Strike (Claw at the Moon and Rabid Wolf Strike of 2nd level later on can become entry points). I guess if you want Sudden Leap this isn't an issue since you have to suck it up anyway. 2) Later on, the Hearing the Air stance just completely obsoletes it, and honestly...HtA is one of the best stances in the game, you'd be foolish not to get it. Island of Blades is alright if you have sneak attack, otherwise it what? Lets you get +2 to hit a round sooner than you would have otherwise? If you have a rogue ally, it's much more helpful. My favorite 1st level stance for a swordsage is child of shadow. You're going to be moving around anyway, so 20% miss chance is awesome and remains useful even at higher levels. I also really like Step of the Wind. Ignoring difficult terrain can be extremely helpful when it comes up, and you get bonuses in it, to boot! Burning Blade: Good MoPM: You already have a good will save, all this does is not fail on a 1. Pass. Saph NM Blade: Having to beat AC twice for only +1d6 seems like a bad deal to me, unless the AC is abysmal. It's much better if you have sneak attack since it also flatfoots the person. Counter Charge: It's outstanding! Mighty Throw: It's handy, difficult to succeed on the check without trip optimization, but at least there's no drawback if you fail. Without Improved Trip, it's main use would be tactical, to toss an enemy into your friend's Entangle spell or something. Not bad, but also not essential. Stone Bones: If the enemy makes a DC 11 int check (untrained Martial Lore), they know to just go full defensive for a round and wait it out. This also ages VERY poorly with levelling. I'd skip it. Shadow Blade Tech: This is pretty good, lets you have two chances to hit someone. The only time to go for the cold damage is if both rolls are high but neither is a crit threat (or if both are...), you're mostly using this for the higher chance to hit. WFS: I don't like it, but sometimes you may just find the need to get in two weak hits to fight off a mob of mooks. You CAN swap this out at level 4, so it's not that crippling to take. I'd caution against Mo9, it's inferior to actually remaining a swordsage, and the feat costs are ridiculous (the example Mo9 didn't even qualify for the class legitimately with his feats!) and too all over the place to be helpful. See if the DM can at least drop the Improved Unarmed Strike pre-req. Or avoid the PrC. You need your feats, badly. Namely: [b][u]Adaptive Style is an essential feat for the Swordsage, like Natural Spell is for Druids, except more so, because druids can technically function without Natural Spell. Take it at level 1. Take it take it take it take it take it!!!![/u][/b][u][/u] I really cannot emphasize that last point enough. [/QUOTE]
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[3.5, Tome of Battle] Need Balance & Build Advice on Swordsage
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