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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Particle_Man" data-source="post: 5232982" data-attributes="member: 892">Ok, here's where it gets a little crazy.  Reincarnation on a home-brew table can get that way sometimes.I have a strength 32 Treant with Crusader class levels.  I am using a greatsword that is two sizes too small, so it is a light weapon (and I have a -4 penalty on attack rolls).  Normally my size mod gives me -2 on attack rolls, but in a grapple it instead is a +8).In a grapple, I could just use my natural weapons and have two grapple checks at 31/31 (+11 str, +12 BAB, +8 size).  Or, I could use the sword on one hand and use the free arm for a secondary natural weapon attack in the other.  If I use the sword to attack, I have a -4 penalty for attacking while in the grapple.  I also cannot use the secondary natural weapon attack to as an attack (because you cannot use two weapons to attack in a grapple), although I can use the secondary natural attack as a grapple for damage (and it is lethal damage, since it is a natural weapon attack).So, if I am in a grapple, and use the sword to attack, I have a +1 (magic sword), +12 (BAB), +11 (str), -2 (Huge sized Treant), -4 (two sizes too small), -4 (attacking while in a grapple) for a total of 14 (plus two iterative sword attacks at 9 and at 4).  In addition, I get the now secondary natural weapon grapple attack from the free arm, at +12 (BAB), +11 (str), +8 (Huge sized Treant), -5 (secondary natural weapon), for a total of 26.The sword will get the full str bonus to damage (+11), but the natural attack will only get half the bonus (+5).  I am assuming that I cannot use crusader strikes while in a grapple as they take a standard action, but that crusader stances and boosts (which take swift actions to activate) are still ok to use.  This assumes that one can use swift actions while in a grapple.If, on the other hand, I just use the two natural weapons for "grapple for damage" grapple checks while grappling, then they will be primary, so I would get grapple checks at +12 (bab), +11 (str), +8 (huge sized treant) for a total of +31, and get the full primary natural attack strength bonus to damage at +11.  I assume that the damage will be lethal since these are natural weapons, and that to make the damage non-lethal I would have to take a -4 penalty to the grapple check.  I am also assuming that I could hold the sword in one hand while doing this (neither using nor needing to drop the sword), much like someone can wrap an arm around you in a grapple, while holding (but not using) a dagger in their hand.(gasps for breath)Does this sound about right?  Am I getting something wrong or missing something?</blockquote>

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