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General Tabletop Discussion
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3.5 Weaponmaster
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<blockquote data-quote="Pax" data-source="post: 1477284" data-attributes="member: 6875"><p>No. The CW Kensai does <strong>not</strong> require you to have a masterwork weapon <em>to enter the class.</em> To use Signature Weapon, if it's a manufactured weapon? Absolutely. But <strong>not</strong> merely to take levels of (CW)Kensai!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p> Looking up Weapon Master from Sword and Fist, and focussing only on what hasn't already been mentioned:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Feat: <em>Dodge</em> ... <span style="color: red">Nope!</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Feat: <em>Mobility</em> ... <span style="color: red">Nope!</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Feat: <em>Combat Reflexes</em> ... <span style="color: red">Nope!</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Feat: <em>Whirlwind Attack</em> ... <span style="color: red">Nope!</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Attribute: <em>Dexterity 13+</em> ... <span style="color: red">Nope!</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Skill: Intimidate 4 ranks ... <span style="color: red">Nope!<br /> </span></li> </ul><p></p><p>... and similarly, from the CW Kensai:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Alignment: Any lawful ... <span style="color: red">Nope!</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Skill: Concentration 5 ranks ... <span style="color: red">Nope!</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Skill: Diplomacy 5 ranks ... <span style="color: red">Nope!</span></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Skill: Ride 5 ranks ... <span style="color: red">Nope!</span></li> </ul><p></p><p> So, we have the followign points of congruence:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> BAB: +5</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Feat: Combat Expertise</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Special: Use of <em>ki</em></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Special: benefits focus on use of a particular weapon or weapon type</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"> Special: class is "monk friendly", whatever that means</li> </ul><p></p><p> Hmm, five points of congruence, <strong>and ten points od difference!</strong> And, let's <strong>address</strong> those points of congruence, one by one:</p><p></p><p><strong>Requires BAB +5 or better</strong></p><p> This is so common, it's laughable. Almost EVERY class needs a +5 or +6 base attack bonus; as a point of congruence supporting a claim that the two classes are the same, this is outright <em>laughable</em>.</p><p></p><p><strong>Requires Combat Expertise to enter</strong></p><p> Again, this is a very common prerequisite - I believe its needed for <strong>any</strong> prestige class which centers around "extraordinary skill with weapons".</p><p></p><p><strong>Special: describes many of it's abilities as using "ki"</strong></p><p> Well, so what? So does the Ravager Prestige Class, in fact. And "ki" is a real-world concept; you wouldn't hold up "uses psionics" as proof that two classes were the same, would you?</p><p></p><p><strong>Special: benefits focus on use of particular weapon or weapon type</strong></p><p> Hmm, let's see, how many classes fit <strong>that</strong> bill, eh? Lasher, duellist, master of chains, deepwood sniper, order of the bow initiate, hulking hurler, exotic weapon master, invisible blade, master thrower, warshaper ("natural weapons", natch), etc, etc, etc ... ad infinitum, ad <em>absurdum</em>. Obviously, that "feature" is used for an entire <strong>panoply</strong> of prestige classes. Thus, this is a non-starter, sorry.</p><p></p><p><strong>Special: class is "monk friendly"</strong></p><p> So are the following, just from CW: justiciar, tattoo'd monk, reaping mauler, drunken master. Another non-starter, because it has <strong>also</strong> been used for an <em>array</em> of classes.</p><p></p><p></p><p> Only <strong>one</strong> of the Weapon Master's abilities comes even <em>close</em> to a changed rule - <em>ki critical</em>, which self-stacks with the Improved Critical feat. And it doesn't <strong>violate</strong> that rule, either - it doesn't let you stack keen and impcrit, it simply produces an especial, this-class-only bonus. </p><p></p><p></p><p> WOTC Customer Service is useless, and if you asked them the same question five times, you'd probably get <strong>six</strong> mutually-exclusive answers.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Pax, post: 1477284, member: 6875"] No. The CW Kensai does [b]not[/b] require you to have a masterwork weapon [i]to enter the class.[/i] To use Signature Weapon, if it's a manufactured weapon? Absolutely. But [b]not[/b] merely to take levels of (CW)Kensai! Looking up Weapon Master from Sword and Fist, and focussing only on what hasn't already been mentioned: [list] [*] Feat: [i]Dodge[/i] ... [color=red]Nope![/color] [*] Feat: [i]Mobility[/i] ... [color=red]Nope![/color] [*] Feat: [i]Combat Reflexes[/i] ... [color=red]Nope![/color] [*] Feat: [i]Whirlwind Attack[/i] ... [color=red]Nope![/color] [*] Attribute: [i]Dexterity 13+[/i] ... [color=red]Nope![/color] [*] Skill: Intimidate 4 ranks ... [color=red]Nope! [/color] [/list] ... and similarly, from the CW Kensai: [list] [*] Alignment: Any lawful ... [color=red]Nope![/color] [*] Skill: Concentration 5 ranks ... [color=red]Nope![/color] [*] Skill: Diplomacy 5 ranks ... [color=red]Nope![/color] [*] Skill: Ride 5 ranks ... [color=red]Nope![/color] [/list] So, we have the followign points of congruence: [list] [*] BAB: +5 [*] Feat: Combat Expertise [*] Special: Use of [i]ki[/i] [*] Special: benefits focus on use of a particular weapon or weapon type [*] Special: class is "monk friendly", whatever that means [/list] Hmm, five points of congruence, [b]and ten points od difference![/b] And, let's [b]address[/b] those points of congruence, one by one: [b]Requires BAB +5 or better[/b] This is so common, it's laughable. Almost EVERY class needs a +5 or +6 base attack bonus; as a point of congruence supporting a claim that the two classes are the same, this is outright [i]laughable[/i]. [b]Requires Combat Expertise to enter[/b] Again, this is a very common prerequisite - I believe its needed for [b]any[/b] prestige class which centers around "extraordinary skill with weapons". [b]Special: describes many of it's abilities as using "ki"[/b] Well, so what? So does the Ravager Prestige Class, in fact. And "ki" is a real-world concept; you wouldn't hold up "uses psionics" as proof that two classes were the same, would you? [b]Special: benefits focus on use of particular weapon or weapon type[/b] Hmm, let's see, how many classes fit [b]that[/b] bill, eh? Lasher, duellist, master of chains, deepwood sniper, order of the bow initiate, hulking hurler, exotic weapon master, invisible blade, master thrower, warshaper ("natural weapons", natch), etc, etc, etc ... ad infinitum, ad [i]absurdum[/i]. Obviously, that "feature" is used for an entire [b]panoply[/b] of prestige classes. Thus, this is a non-starter, sorry. [b]Special: class is "monk friendly"[/b] So are the following, just from CW: justiciar, tattoo'd monk, reaping mauler, drunken master. Another non-starter, because it has [b]also[/b] been used for an [i]array[/i] of classes. Only [b]one[/b] of the Weapon Master's abilities comes even [i]close[/i] to a changed rule - [i]ki critical[/i], which self-stacks with the Improved Critical feat. And it doesn't [b]violate[/b] that rule, either - it doesn't let you stack keen and impcrit, it simply produces an especial, this-class-only bonus. WOTC Customer Service is useless, and if you asked them the same question five times, you'd probably get [b]six[/b] mutually-exclusive answers. [/QUOTE]
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