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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Felix" data-source="post: 2205635" data-attributes="member: 3929">The threat of going after the bow, yes. The archer doesn't know if they're going to sunder or whack him with a sword, both or neither. Trip, perhaps? Which will bugger an archer...Any way you look at it, the archer doesn't want to be close to the guys he's firing at, right? So when they get closer, they'll want to back off, right? Backing off means not getting in a full-round Rapid Shot action. So rate of fire decreases. I don't see the point of contention.He isn't. I was talking about the usefulness of the skills. When these skills are used in a group of all sneaky types, their usefulness increases, because it is more likely their whole group will go unnoticed and thus they will not be forced to engage.When the group has klunky types, as the majority of PC parties will have, the usefulness of Hide/MvSil decreases, because the whole group won't be quiet, and thus they will be less able to choose engagements of their choosing.This was not a Rogue/Archer "who's the better scout" point of contention, rather I was pointing out that the addition of Hide/MvSil to the DWS's abilities makes it more useful as an NPC class (which is more likely to be able to apply Hide/MvSil more efficiently) rather than a PC class.D'oh! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />They're listed because they have abilities that can be used in close combat, they can act as the archer, and so they're not going to be so strung up on the bow that they will retreat when faced with melee.Thus the problem with PC archers... they're best when not close to the bad guy, and most DnD encounters are up close and personal. Because everyone leaves the bards to the last, since they're really no threat. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /> Heh. Actually it's because they already function as a support character, and archery is a rear-guard type thing, so they go well together.Right. So when the enemies show up they can draw. I have no problem with that. But because the PC DWS has everything specialized in the bow, he will have only light armor, his DEX, and his moderate HPs to protect him. More to come... must go take an erg test...</blockquote>

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