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Message: <blockquote data-quote="James McMurray" data-source="post: 990169" data-attributes="member: 743">But the loss of offensive power means he doesn't deal enough damage to warrant staying around that extra half-round. 23 Hit points is a lot , but then again so is 4+ 3rd level spells per day.Given that grapple is BAB + Strength, and the half-dragon isn't large, and that sorcerers don't generally stock up on strength when assigning their original stats, I think at worst it would be an even up roll. However, the fighter has most likely put his highest stat in strength, thereby evening the odds a bt (16 Str vs. 18 Str). His BAB is also at least 4 points higher, meaning he still comes out ahead.I disagree. Any + ECL race is painful for a spellcaster. And when that spellcaster is of a variety that only gets higher level spells at even levels, its even more painful.</blockquote>