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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
(3.5e) Intimidate and Undead
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<blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 5248789" data-attributes="member: 35909"><p>I'd like to take this opportunity to go off on a bit of a tangent and say that I've always always ALWAYS (it bears the repetition) hated the fact that intelligent undead still got to count as <strong>mindless</strong>. In fact, I think the plethora of "special treatments" they've gotten in how they interact with various spells, feats, and other effects at least somewhat proves my assertion that giving them the automatic benefit of being mindless just because they're undead is complete and total bull****.</p><p></p><p>Two examples, just off the top of my head:</p><p></p><p>The <a href="http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/commandUndead.htm" target="_blank">Command Undead</a> spell:</p><p></p><p>"Assuming the subject is intelligent, it perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way (treat its attitude as friendly). ...You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn’t ordinarily do. (Retries are not allowed.) An intelligent commanded undead never obeys suicidal or obviously harmful orders, but it might be convinced that something very dangerous is worth doing."</p><p></p><p>"A nonintelligent undead creature gets no saving throw against this spell. <strong><u>When you control a mindless being</u></strong>, you can communicate only basic commands, such as “come here,” “go there,” “fight,” “stand still,” and so on. Nonintelligent undead won’t resist suicidal or obviously harmful orders. "</p><p></p><p>Or how about the Song of the Dead metamagic feat? For +1 spell level, it lets you use mind-affecting spells on intelligent undead. But not non-intelligent undead. Why not? Well, because they're ACTUALLY mindless! The text from crystalkeep's feat database:</p><p>"Mind-Affecting spells prepared with this feat effect Intelligence Undead, <strong>but not Mindless Undead</strong>, Constructs, or any living creatures of any type. Any spell prepared with this Feat becomes a Necromancy spell."</p><p></p><p>So... <img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /><img src="data:image/gif;base64,R0lGODlhAQABAIAAAAAAAP///yH5BAEAAAAALAAAAAABAAEAAAIBRAA7" class="smilie smilie--sprite smilie--sprite1" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" loading="lazy" data-shortname=":)" /> those smug intelligent undead bastards! Let 'em be Intimidated!</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="StreamOfTheSky, post: 5248789, member: 35909"] I'd like to take this opportunity to go off on a bit of a tangent and say that I've always always ALWAYS (it bears the repetition) hated the fact that intelligent undead still got to count as [b]mindless[/b]. In fact, I think the plethora of "special treatments" they've gotten in how they interact with various spells, feats, and other effects at least somewhat proves my assertion that giving them the automatic benefit of being mindless just because they're undead is complete and total bull****. Two examples, just off the top of my head: The [url=http://www.d20srd.org/srd/spells/commandUndead.htm]Command Undead[/url] spell: "Assuming the subject is intelligent, it perceives your words and actions in the most favorable way (treat its attitude as friendly). ...You can try to give the subject orders, but you must win an opposed Charisma check to convince it to do anything it wouldn’t ordinarily do. (Retries are not allowed.) An intelligent commanded undead never obeys suicidal or obviously harmful orders, but it might be convinced that something very dangerous is worth doing." "A nonintelligent undead creature gets no saving throw against this spell. [b][u]When you control a mindless being[/u][/b][u][/u], you can communicate only basic commands, such as “come here,” “go there,” “fight,” “stand still,” and so on. Nonintelligent undead won’t resist suicidal or obviously harmful orders. " Or how about the Song of the Dead metamagic feat? For +1 spell level, it lets you use mind-affecting spells on intelligent undead. But not non-intelligent undead. Why not? Well, because they're ACTUALLY mindless! The text from crystalkeep's feat database: "Mind-Affecting spells prepared with this feat effect Intelligence Undead, [b]but not Mindless Undead[/b], Constructs, or any living creatures of any type. Any spell prepared with this Feat becomes a Necromancy spell." So... :):):):) those smug intelligent undead bastards! Let 'em be Intimidated! [/QUOTE]
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