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General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
3.5E magic item compendium
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<blockquote data-quote="delericho" data-source="post: 6036044" data-attributes="member: 22424"><p>Of course, if the party comes up against undead instead, the Wizard is SOL.</p><p></p><p>In any case, it's no big deal - the Wizard can do this once, maybe twice, in the day, which stacks up well against the Fighter's ability just to fight on. It also loses its usefulness very quickly, which means it stacks up well against those 1st level spells that retain their usefulness with level.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>If used on an area, it affects allies as well as enemies. And affected enemies can simply move out of the (small) area of effect and then stand up - at worst, they lose a round's worth of actions.</p><p></p><p>Alternately, if cast on a weapon... it is about equivalent to the Fighter's disarm action.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So, a spell that is quite deadly at 1st level but near-useless thereafter, versus one of lesser usefulness but that retains its potency? Yep, that's sounds... balanced.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Magic missile still sees regular use in my 9th level campaign. It seems about as useful now as it was at the start - it's not hugely potent... but then, it <em>is</em> a 1st level spell. The other two spells have never seen much use, because the casters take pains to avoid letting enemies get that close. But in a pinch at low level, those spells have their places.</p><p></p><p>I simply do not see the problem with any of this.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sounds like a perfect controller's spell - significant but not deadly effect against some creatures, near-useless against others. Negates invisibility, but only if the caster is able to target the correct area.</p><p></p><p>And, again, it affects friend as well as foe, so if the party Fighter moves in to attack that blinded Hydra, he's at risk - note that the spell is not instantaneous!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Alter self I'll give you - the constant errata to the whole polymorph subschool clearly indicates that there was a problem. Even so, the options you've listed aren't unreasonable for a 2nd level spell - +6 to AC is hardly outrageous when <em>armour</em> and <em>shield</em> can each give +4 at 1st level; that Swim speed is useful, but hardly game-breaking.</p><p></p><p>Now, if the spell gave all of the above at the same time... <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile :)" data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="delericho, post: 6036044, member: 22424"] Of course, if the party comes up against undead instead, the Wizard is SOL. In any case, it's no big deal - the Wizard can do this once, maybe twice, in the day, which stacks up well against the Fighter's ability just to fight on. It also loses its usefulness very quickly, which means it stacks up well against those 1st level spells that retain their usefulness with level. If used on an area, it affects allies as well as enemies. And affected enemies can simply move out of the (small) area of effect and then stand up - at worst, they lose a round's worth of actions. Alternately, if cast on a weapon... it is about equivalent to the Fighter's disarm action. So, a spell that is quite deadly at 1st level but near-useless thereafter, versus one of lesser usefulness but that retains its potency? Yep, that's sounds... balanced. Magic missile still sees regular use in my 9th level campaign. It seems about as useful now as it was at the start - it's not hugely potent... but then, it [i]is[/i] a 1st level spell. The other two spells have never seen much use, because the casters take pains to avoid letting enemies get that close. But in a pinch at low level, those spells have their places. I simply do not see the problem with any of this. Sounds like a perfect controller's spell - significant but not deadly effect against some creatures, near-useless against others. Negates invisibility, but only if the caster is able to target the correct area. And, again, it affects friend as well as foe, so if the party Fighter moves in to attack that blinded Hydra, he's at risk - note that the spell is not instantaneous! Alter self I'll give you - the constant errata to the whole polymorph subschool clearly indicates that there was a problem. Even so, the options you've listed aren't unreasonable for a 2nd level spell - +6 to AC is hardly outrageous when [i]armour[/i] and [i]shield[/i] can each give +4 at 1st level; that Swim speed is useful, but hardly game-breaking. Now, if the spell gave all of the above at the same time... :) [/QUOTE]
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