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Message: <blockquote data-quote="mkill" data-source="post: 5807353" data-attributes="member: 55985">Let's face it... There are a lot of players out there who like dealing damage more than anything else. There is nothing wrong with that. 4E just said hey, if dealing a lot of damage is what you like, try this and this and this class. I think the bigger problem was that many of these players still wanted to play a Fighter or a Wizard. With just the 4E PHB, you can't accomodate these players well, so it turned them off 4E when it came out. Now they can just pick a Slayer or a Sorcerer.As for the Rogue, I never liked the "skill monkey". Every PC should be useful out of combat. Sure, Rogues should be good at sneaky stuff, traps, locks and tricking people, but that's just one area of what you can do with skills. There is still wilderness survival and scouting, healing, information gathering, arcane lore and religion, politics and a lot of other stuff that fit other classes better.A 3E fighter does none of that right out of the gate. A new player who builds his first 3E fighter will only see a punching bag. Experienced players who read the Charop guides will know that the most effective way to build a fighter is to get a lot of threatening reach and trip the hell out of monsters, but it's not obvious at all and the game won't lead you there if you don't know it.4E, on the other hand, makes "close range controller" the default, because that is how the 4E Fighter and every other defender works right from level one. He can trip (=knock prone), stop movement, punish attacks on allies ... Unlike 3E, you don't need to wait unti mid-high levels when you finally have all the feats, items and PrCs together to be effective at that.</blockquote>

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