Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
3.5e -- What REALLY needed fixing?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="OneWinged4ngel" data-source="post: 4375370" data-attributes="member: 37292"><p>Pssh, I could give a hundred of these.</p><p></p><p>1) Uneven Progressions hinders customization, particularly multiclassing.</p><p>2) Most weapon styles suffer heavily from breaking points.</p><p>3) Armor is significantly unbalanced, to the point that there is always one "best" armor for any given class.</p><p>4) "Top down" combat flow, particularly with spellcasters. Blow your best and slug it out with whatever's left. In 3e, usually no one survives the nova, and in 4e, you're left with an extended at-will slugfest. Top down flow lends itself to falling action rather than rising action. Fixing this would actually also fix Save or Dies in the process; the problem with save or dies is their setup, not the fact that they cause death. For example, when was the last time someone complained about Coup De Grace?</p><p>5) Optional level-based skill bonuses are inherently divergent from the RNG.</p><p>6) No rules to facilitate chases.</p><p>7) Social interactions are broken, due to the inherently divergent skill system and a downright awful mechanic for Diplomacy.</p><p>8) Aerial combats cause headaches for all.</p><p>9) The economy is difficult to manage, WBL is not nearly as reliable a mechanic to manage the second scaling tier of power as the level system.</p><p>10) Items are severely unbalanced, to the point that 90% of them are never, ever used, quite simply because they're priced too high for their benefit and everyone would rather have one of the Big Six.</p><p>11) Little love is given to the extraordinary mundane, to the point that extraordinary mundane items tend to arbitrarily become "magical." The greatest smith of legend produces a "masterwork" sword, and it's the sole domain of a level 2 character. This bias applies to a lesser extent in the class system.</p><p>12) HP and healing is flavorfully inconsistent at best. For example, it's an abstraction that doesn't necessarily represent real damage, but then you need bigger and bigger spells to heal the same wounds.</p><p>13) Barbie Dress Up itemization. The problems with this are myriad.</p><p>14) Skills are inherently unbalanced, and some simply are too high "cost" to ever take with the very limited amount of skill points you have. Use Rope cannot compare in any way to UMD, and playing a knowledgeable scholar comes at the cost of most other practical skills.</p><p>15) Skill points tend to be too limited in comparison to the scope of skill selection choices.</p><p>16) Cross class skill restrictions.</p><p>17) Little room for interesting flaws. The existing flaws system is deeply, well, flawed. The ones available don't really affect your character, but merely an optimization tool. "I have slightly less Dex, but... not really. Can I have another feat?"</p><p>18) Non-caster/ToB classes have far too little abilities, and tend to grow boring and repetitive. They tend to stay much the same over the level progression, and tend to scale linearly, while classes with the levelled (1-9) ability selections wholly renew their playstyle every 2 levels and tend to scale geometrically.</p><p>19) Current spell preparation system requires far more preparation time as you increase in levels, to the point where you have some 50 minor spells of little consequence to prepare.</p><p>20) Many systems need to be unified. There is no particularly good reason why, say, saves should be a wholly different mechanic than AC. And there is simply no defending things like Turn Undead.</p><p>21) Item damage is a headache at best, right up to needing to guess out thickness. Object hps and such need to be more easily referenced.</p><p>22) Combat tends to be too immobile for the types you'd expect to be most mobile (the guys running around with swords, not the ones pulling spell components out of their pants).</p><p>23) Crazy bonus stacking. Problems are obvious.</p><p>24) RNG divergence or making the RNG obsolete. Problems are obvious, and the main reason why higher levels break and no one likes them.</p><p>25) Irregular and erratic and overly varied scaling models for various systems (skills, BAB, AC, saves, etc etc).</p><p>26) LA does not even remotely come close to working at all.</p><p>27) Racial penalties in practice only serve to shoehorn, rather than make someone more of an adherent of that race. In fact, they can even make them LESS so. For example, you have a Human wizard (going for grapplemancer, so he wants strength too) and a half-orc wizard (going for grapplemancer, so he wants strength too), both building with point buy. They both take 16 Int. The half-orc pays 6 points more for his 16 int, but he gets +2 strength and has 10. But the Human uses his extra 6 points to get 14 strength. The human and orc have spent the same number of skill points. The human has 16 int and 14 strength, and the half-orc has 16 int and 10 strength. Tell me, who came out being more "orcish" in this equation?</p><p></p><p>Can go on...</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="OneWinged4ngel, post: 4375370, member: 37292"] Pssh, I could give a hundred of these. 1) Uneven Progressions hinders customization, particularly multiclassing. 2) Most weapon styles suffer heavily from breaking points. 3) Armor is significantly unbalanced, to the point that there is always one "best" armor for any given class. 4) "Top down" combat flow, particularly with spellcasters. Blow your best and slug it out with whatever's left. In 3e, usually no one survives the nova, and in 4e, you're left with an extended at-will slugfest. Top down flow lends itself to falling action rather than rising action. Fixing this would actually also fix Save or Dies in the process; the problem with save or dies is their setup, not the fact that they cause death. For example, when was the last time someone complained about Coup De Grace? 5) Optional level-based skill bonuses are inherently divergent from the RNG. 6) No rules to facilitate chases. 7) Social interactions are broken, due to the inherently divergent skill system and a downright awful mechanic for Diplomacy. 8) Aerial combats cause headaches for all. 9) The economy is difficult to manage, WBL is not nearly as reliable a mechanic to manage the second scaling tier of power as the level system. 10) Items are severely unbalanced, to the point that 90% of them are never, ever used, quite simply because they're priced too high for their benefit and everyone would rather have one of the Big Six. 11) Little love is given to the extraordinary mundane, to the point that extraordinary mundane items tend to arbitrarily become "magical." The greatest smith of legend produces a "masterwork" sword, and it's the sole domain of a level 2 character. This bias applies to a lesser extent in the class system. 12) HP and healing is flavorfully inconsistent at best. For example, it's an abstraction that doesn't necessarily represent real damage, but then you need bigger and bigger spells to heal the same wounds. 13) Barbie Dress Up itemization. The problems with this are myriad. 14) Skills are inherently unbalanced, and some simply are too high "cost" to ever take with the very limited amount of skill points you have. Use Rope cannot compare in any way to UMD, and playing a knowledgeable scholar comes at the cost of most other practical skills. 15) Skill points tend to be too limited in comparison to the scope of skill selection choices. 16) Cross class skill restrictions. 17) Little room for interesting flaws. The existing flaws system is deeply, well, flawed. The ones available don't really affect your character, but merely an optimization tool. "I have slightly less Dex, but... not really. Can I have another feat?" 18) Non-caster/ToB classes have far too little abilities, and tend to grow boring and repetitive. They tend to stay much the same over the level progression, and tend to scale linearly, while classes with the levelled (1-9) ability selections wholly renew their playstyle every 2 levels and tend to scale geometrically. 19) Current spell preparation system requires far more preparation time as you increase in levels, to the point where you have some 50 minor spells of little consequence to prepare. 20) Many systems need to be unified. There is no particularly good reason why, say, saves should be a wholly different mechanic than AC. And there is simply no defending things like Turn Undead. 21) Item damage is a headache at best, right up to needing to guess out thickness. Object hps and such need to be more easily referenced. 22) Combat tends to be too immobile for the types you'd expect to be most mobile (the guys running around with swords, not the ones pulling spell components out of their pants). 23) Crazy bonus stacking. Problems are obvious. 24) RNG divergence or making the RNG obsolete. Problems are obvious, and the main reason why higher levels break and no one likes them. 25) Irregular and erratic and overly varied scaling models for various systems (skills, BAB, AC, saves, etc etc). 26) LA does not even remotely come close to working at all. 27) Racial penalties in practice only serve to shoehorn, rather than make someone more of an adherent of that race. In fact, they can even make them LESS so. For example, you have a Human wizard (going for grapplemancer, so he wants strength too) and a half-orc wizard (going for grapplemancer, so he wants strength too), both building with point buy. They both take 16 Int. The half-orc pays 6 points more for his 16 int, but he gets +2 strength and has 10. But the Human uses his extra 6 points to get 14 strength. The human and orc have spent the same number of skill points. The human has 16 int and 14 strength, and the half-orc has 16 int and 10 strength. Tell me, who came out being more "orcish" in this equation? Can go on... [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
3.5e -- What REALLY needed fixing?
Top