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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Aelryinth" data-source="post: 4375890" data-attributes="member: 10515">The summoning problem is the result of 1) Using Called creatures that can summon.  they aren't under summoning restrictions.  Planar Binding and Planar Ally, as well as Gate, fall under this category.2) Summoning creatures with caster levels.  They can still use their cast spells to summon other monsters.The Celestial Cascade was the result of gating in a Solar who summoned a Planetar and gated in another solar, and then the Planetar would use its cleric levels to bring in a Deva, and the new Solar would summon another Planetar, and the first solar would cast Planar Ally or something, ad infinitum.====CODzilla draws its strength from using multiple buffs.  Its typically using Wildshape to assume forms that mean the Druid doesn't need to have good physical stats of their own, which enhances their spellcasting ability, and for the Cleric using Divine Favor, Divine Power, and righteous Might to emulate a Fighter while still retaining full spellcasting power.  Add in some other powerful buffs and a cleric could easily fill a melee tank role and still change his spells around the next day to be a nuker, skill monkey, healbot, or summoning/controller.I mean, truly, how does a melee compare with Bite of the werebear, giving +16 Str, +8 Con, +2 Dex, a nat AC bonus, etc?  There's so many stacking buffs, it's just nuts.=============There's a poster that said Persistent Spell was broken, not DMM.  that's not true.  DMM allows a cleric to break the metacap on casting spells over their knee.  Persistent spell is a +6 LA.  Divine Favor all day as a 7th level spell isn't that bad.  Nor, really, is Divine Power as a 10th level spell (epic).  When you can cast it at level 7?  yeah, that's broken.  Likewise, take out Persistent and they just use Quicken to buff instafast before a fight.  You can get a lot of turn attempts very easily to power this stuff.Although I strongly advocate that Persistent Spell should be in a class like Permanency, and only spells specifically listed as working with it do so.  Others, well, too bad.  Actually, you could almost restrict it to the Permanency list, and it'd be pretty balanced. heh!===================There's a couple more issues I haven't really seen.The importance of Reach.  This is so critical in melee builds you either are told to walk around permanently enlarged or to use a spiked chain (or a polearm with Short Haft).  Reach should be made much less powerful.The power of Touch Attacks to ignore AC.  4E gets around this by forcing a target on reflex saves and so forth, but when you have things like brilliant and wraithstrike ignoring all armor and shields, well, why wear them?The easy access and dominating power of size and size bonuses to Str, Dmg and reach.  There are almost no negatives to speak of for just plain being BIG.Severely broken spell combos and rules, and just plain stupid magic items.  We all know these from the optimizer boards...they should just be struck from the game.Unlimited spell lists.  Clerics and Druids have access to ALL cleric and druid spells that come out!  Notice that many of the more recent classes have VERY tight spell lists, but can cast anything on it.  CoD should have the same, with the main expansion being their domains.  new spells should all fall under the aegis of being accessible to characters with X domain.  Another option is restricting spells by level according to stat, as 1E did...you had to pick and choose what spells you might EVER want to cast, meaning each divine caster has a custom and much smaller spell list.Spells that replace the roles of other classes.  Uber buffage spells that give physical stats higher then a melee can match (or magic items provide).  Spells that give huge skill bonuses so you don't need a skill monkey...or just render a skill useless (like knock).The thinking that because I can do this all day, I'm balanced with a caster that can do it a couple times a day so much better then me.  newsflash, when the caster is out of spells, your day stops, too, unless the DM is feeling particularly mean.  This is why the warlock, with his huge potential/day for dmg, and the melees, are overwhelmed by casters with fewer but stronger attacks.One hit anything attacks.  That goes for uber charging for melees to save or suck/dies for spellcasters.Horrible language.  I'm in a debate on the WotC site over the language of Animate Dead.  By the language it uses, 'the eye or mouth socket of the corpse', it is effectively assuming every corpse is a cyclops!  If a corpse has multiple sockets, it's basically saying the spell doesn't work (too many sockets) or you have to fill them all!  And we all know examples of equally oblivious language.Overhauling the skill system.  restrict what can be done by skill ranks instead of DC's.  Bonuses only help you do something faster, or reduce penalties.  You can't create super skill effects with high bonuses without high ranks (and levels) coming first.  So, no +20 UMD rings letting everyone in the party use the Wand with Persistent Divine Favor on it.Fixing weapon dmg via style.  The advantage of THW, especially reach weapons, over TWF and Sword and Board, is just plain dumb.  4E did this by getting rid of the str bonus and folding it into the weapon itself, and making shields actually important.Different bonuses should either not stack or cancel each other out.  For instance, Sacred and Profane bonuses should cancel.  Insight (taking advantage of coming opportunities) and Luck (coming opportunities naturally benefit you) should not stack.  One just sees them coming, the other does not.   COmpetence and Morale bonuses shouldn't stack...one is emulating the fact you are good with a skill, the other makes you think are better at something then you are.Feats should be condensed and scale, being worthwhile at low as well as high level.PrC's should NEVER grant better benefits then a core class...only different ones.  If you have a different concept to try out for a melee, make a feat tree for it.  4E is adhering VERY strictly to this.Multiclassing useful without being predominant as it was in 1E.  I use a variant where you get sort of a gestalt class, but your level is limited to your main class/2 levels, +1, and your benefits are very core-restricted (Int bonus for skills only in main class, for instance...skill points for multiclassing cannot be spent cross class, etc.).    Thus, if you are a f/10 and want to learn divine magic the best you can be is a cleric/6...which makes clerical magic a useful supplement, but your main class is still your focus.'taking advantage' of paying xp for stuff to be lower level and earn more xp from encounters.  Ugh.==Aelryinth</blockquote>

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