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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Gez" data-source="post: 716632" data-attributes="member: 1328">No. That wouldn't be logical at all.Hold person immobilize you, it don't deal you damage. Even if hit points are also supposed to abstract dodging and so, it isn't movement, it's capacity to soak or avoid PHYSICAL DAMAGE.Hold person is NOT physical damage, it is magical immobilization.You avoid being magically immobilized with a Will save, not a For or Reflex one.Furthermore, if you had hold person and other similar spells deal damage, you would nerf spellcasters even more. They have few hit points, but good will save. By making these spells damage hit points, rather than have any other effect, you penalize wizards.You also totally ruin the flavor of the spell, since it's no longer a spell that immobilize someone, but a damage-dealing spell. A fireball variant, in other words.With that logic, charm person could become a damage dealing spell also. You just have to say hit points are merely more abstract than before, and represent also your capacity at avoiding being charmed. Sigh. And then, you remove saving throws altogether, soaking with hit point cushion is all you need. And you remove combat and spellcasting alltogether, just have one class, with three stats: level, hit points, and ability. To battle someone else, you make an ability check, and that give you the number of damage you deal. When your level raise, you may increase hit points or ability. It's totally abstracted out and the system ignore whether you deal damage with a spell, a bow, a claymore, or just attempted to teleport to safety (abstracted to killing the bigbaddy in order to create safety in your zone).If you're just allergic to spellcaster, just remove the classes, that would be less hypocritical than nerfing them constantly. What do you want ? Wizards with d1 HD every 3 levels, that could deal 1 point of damage per day and nothing else ?I'm rambling, I know. But hold is not damaging, it is, plainly, holding. And although considered a save-or-die because it allow to make a CDG on the victim, it don't kill itself. It could be utilized in situation where you don't want to kill a target, like to prevent someone from doing something without harming him.Turning hold person into spell that is called hold but that actually don't hold, just deal damage, although it kept its name of holding for reason of flavor, even if now it's a bland spell is not a smart move. IMHO, YMMV, and all that.</blockquote>

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