Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="(Psi)SeveredHead" data-source="post: 864808" data-attributes="member: 1165">ApokThe problem isn't direct damage, but save-or-die spells.At around 3rd level, a wizard can use Blindness, Glitterdust or Web. At 5th they get Fireball, which lets them... not catch up with a fighter <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />.  At 7th they can get Confusion and Polymorph Other, at 9th they get Hold Monster, at 11th Disintegrate and Flesh to Stone, at 13th Finger of Death and at 17th Dominate Monster.(I'm going to ignore Haste - two Disintegrates a round! - and the save-less Wall of Force and Forcecage for the moment. Well, I'll almost ignore them <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /> )A cleric gets these kinds of spells starting at 9th level (Slay Living) then more at 13th level (Destruction). I'm going to ignore Harm for the moment.A spellcaster's strength isn't in damage, but save-or-die. I don't know if spellcasters should do a lot of damage - wizards have only d4 hp/level, so it isn't really fair to beef up damage - but a spellcaster who uses other tactics will get further ahead.(Clerics get pretty much the same offense as a wizard, plus much better defenses. No wonder they're the most powerful class.)Incidentally, fighters rarely deal that much damage. Using a full-round attack, even with Power Attack, often results in a nearly dead fighter. I'll never forget the difference between a 13th-level encounter trading full-round attacks (the fighter died, despite getting a Heal spell) and when the fighter moved around and used Spring Attack. In the second scenario, the fighter lived, didn't have to soak up Heal spells, and the spellcasters unleashed a lot of damage, as well as Hold Monster.Now, if the fighter had been an archer, he could get a full-round attack every round...Lord AoCast Wall of Force <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> Even with a Reflex save (my house rule) it's a kick-butt spell. It works on anything that can't Teleport.ZanderI disagree. I see SR like DR - both are commonplace, and not universal. Both should be potent defenses, but in practice, DR is nearly worthless as a defense. Fighters will get a bit weaker in 3.5 since they'll often face -5 or -10 damage per attack.Furthermore, a wizard's save-or-die spells are a lot more powerful than a fighter's weapon. Finger of Death is more powerful than any weapon, and doesn't require crits to work like a vorpal sword. (And vorpal is broken, IMO.)Elder-BasiliskI disagree. A wizard can protect himself from most of these spells with Spell Turning and Protection from Spells. Of course, the former is limited (and won't work against Disintegrate) and the latter requires an expensive diamond. Mirror Image, Mislead or Improved Invisibility will save you from nearly anything without True Seeing or blindsight. (Note that a lot of high-CR creatures use this, of course.) There aren't that many powerful defensive spells for the wizard. However, the wizard's offense is very powerful.JasamcarlMordenkainen's Disjunction is broken <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />Dark JezterBeholders... yes. Very. A beholder can Disintegrate a spellcaster very quickly, or just anti-magic them. On the other hand, a spellcaster can usually deal with a golem - eg with Wall of Force or Summon Monster. (The old DR rules made the latter a joke, however.)(Rant: Why are nearly all the golems magic immune?)</blockquote>

Verification