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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ruin Explorer" data-source="post: 8210011" data-attributes="member: 18">That's a pretty silly beef with Planescape, because whilst it is shallow, what they did with the Factions was really fun and effective, and got people engaged with the ideas involved, to the level that was appropriate for Dungeons and Dragons (this ain't Philosophers and Philanderers or whatever). Ravnica is a very nerdy take in a bad way, that basically layers nerd stuff on nerd stuff. It's fine for MtG, where you're expected to be engaged with idiotic incestuous/self-referential nerd stuff like the colour pie, but it's lame for D&D. It's not engaging or fun, and it doesn't speak to remotely the breadth of players that Planescape's approach did. If Planescape veers slightly into Monty Python or sketch show territory at times, that only helps the accessibility and is indeed part of the charm of the setting.Exactly! It's all very well for philosophy majors or self-regarding "readers of philosophy" to sneer (and guys we're all laughing at your degree anyway so...), but it wasn't shallow because Zeb Cook couldn't have made it deeper, it was shallow because it was intended to be engaging and fun not "educational". Even the shallow stuff it has honestly promotes a lot of thinking about thinking and ideas that most people just don't do.</blockquote>