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Message: <blockquote data-quote="JohnSnow" data-source="post: 5122431" data-attributes="member: 32164">There was a great article in Dragon a while back on using bard as the basis for an arcane archer character. Basically, do a Cha/Dex build, multiclass Ranger and aim mostly for powers that hex and control. If your player really likes the bard, that might be one option.Alternatively, if your player is just bored with her wizard, maybe she'd get a kick out of one of the other controllers with a totally different "feel," like the druid or seeker (PHB3).I've often found that letting a player play what they want is usually the best way to keep them happy. My groups usually have some odd combos, but everyone's enjoying the game. 4e seems to be a lot more forgiving on this level than 3e was, in my experience. A leader is still pretty useful, but even that isn't strictly essential. Just as a full disclosure, here's the two groups I'm running:Group ATiefling hybrid rogue/bardHuman paladin (of the Raven Queen)Half-elf swordmage (multiclass warlock)Elf ranger (archer build)Human cleric (of Bahamut)Group BHalfling rogueHuman cleric (of Bahamut)Elf ranger (archer build)Gnome wizard (illusionist)Human fighter (tempest build)A is currently going through Keep on the Shadowfell, and B just started Rescue at Rivenroar. A lot of the characters in A changed in the first few sessions. For instance, the swordmage was originally a warlock, and liked the flavor but not the way it was playing, hence the switch and the multiclassing. The ranger started as a tiefling warlord, but the player decided it wasn't to his taste, so we just retconned his character. And the tiefling was straight rogue at first - but was rebuilt when her player found out that the hybrid bard thing was possible.And despite the two similar characters, none of the characters are actually in both groups, although most of the players are. The player of the elf ranger from group A isn't in Group B, but he's the only one. The swordmage from A is B's cleric, A's cleric plays B's wizard, A's rogue/bard plays B's ranger, and the player of the moody paladin stepped into the role of the goofy halfling. B's fighter is an NPC I slipped to give the group a little more backup for their adventure, but I'm pretty sure he isn't necessary. On the other hand, if we pick up another player, maybe they'll want to take him on.I guess the whole point of that was that oddball group mixes work just fine. And it pays to be flexible and work to give your players what they want (within reason, obviously).</blockquote>

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