[3.X] Critical on Disarm Attempt?

[Kibou]

I lately had a discussion with my DM about critical rolls on disarm attempts.

His point of view:

An "opposed attack roll" is, by definition, an "attack roll". Thus, a critical hit will count as instant success, even if the opponent's roll is higher.

My point of view:

"Opposed attack role" does not equal "attack role". Also, the rules say an opposed attack roll should be performed and the one with the higher result wins. Since taking critial rolls into account would constrict this rule (by allowing someone to win with a lower result), I would expect it to be explicitly mentioned in the rule.

Another thing that only came to my mind after the discussion: If you apply the "attack roll" critical rule, that means a critical hit needs to be confirmed with another roll - which is obviously not possible if you didn't surpass the opponent's result with a 20 in the first place.


How does it really work? Does a critical roll have any effect in an disarm attempt? Does it have to be confirmed? Does it have to be a 20, or a roll within the crit range of the used weapon?

Thanks a lot!

 

[Jhaelen]

An "opposed attack roll" is, by definition, an "attack roll". Thus, a critical hit will count as instant success, even if the opponent's roll is higher.

I don't think so. Here's the definition of attack roll from the SRD (emphasis mine):

Attack Roll

An attack roll represents your attempt to strike your opponent on your turn in a round. When you make an attack roll, you roll a d20 and add your attack bonus. (Other modifiers may also apply to this roll.) If your result equals or beats the target’s Armor Class, you hit and deal damage.

Obviously, this definition does not properly describe what happens when rolling an opposed attack roll when making a disarm attempt.

Since it's an opposed roll it should properly have been called an opposed attack check:

Opposed Checks

An opposed check is a check whose success or failure is determined by comparing the check result to another character’s check result. In an opposed check, the higher result succeeds, while the lower result fails. In case of a tie, the higher skill modifier wins. If these scores are the same, roll again to break the tie.

There is actually no mention of something like an 'opposed attack'.

(Skill) checks can never be 'critical', nor are they automatically successful on a roll of 20. the only thing that is special about the disarm check is that it uses your attack modifier in place of a skill modifier.

 

[irdeggman]

I think you are confusing terms.

A natural 20 is an automatic hit (not a critical hit).

From the SRD

"Automatic Misses and Hits: A natural 1 (the d20 comes up 1) on an attack roll is always a miss. A natural 20 (the d20 comes up 20) is always a hit. A natural 20 is also a threat—a possible critical hit."

Some weapons have a wider threat range like 18-20.

This does not mean that a nat 18 is an automatic hit. It just means that if you hit within that threat range then you have a possible critical hit and then you make the confirmation roll to see if extra damage is done.

Also all a confirmed critical does is increase the damage dealt by "X" times (as in roll the damage dice that many times) - no effect on things that do no damage.


Rules Compendium pg 45 or PHB pg 155 for disarming.

You declare the item you are attempting to disarm.

You generate an Attack of Opportunity when making the attempt.

If the target does any damage with its AoO the disarm attempt fails.

Make opposed melee attack rolls

(Make sure to take into account weapon size penalties/bonuses for the attack rolls)

If you beat the the defender you have disarmed him if not then he can immediately attempt to disarm you.

It is the use of the text "opposed melee attacks" that places it outside of the normal make a melee attack roll.

A specific rule takes precedence over a generic one.

Thus the specific rule (an opposed melee attack roll) takes precedence for this situation.

See page 64 of the PHB for what an opposed check is (even though it is in the skills section it is still applicable to any opposed check)