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3.X Retrospective 19 Years in Production.
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<blockquote data-quote="Alzrius" data-source="post: 8229478" data-attributes="member: 8461"><p>If you think that "cheating" can't be objectively defined as "breaking the rules," then I'm not sure what to say except that you're using a definition of the word that's unique to you. Presumably you mean "something not allowed in my game," which is not what that word means to everyone else.</p><p></p><p>Likewise, I'm fine with discussing 3E; don't forget that I did so when I demonstrated how your counting eight different books as containing player-facing content was wrong, since not all of those books had such content.</p><p></p><p>Again, it's not cheating when it's entirely rules-legal. All of those campaign settings have in-universe connections, and all of the rules cited work in conjunction with all of the other rules listed, without any restrictions being violated. Ergo, it's not "cheating" per se. You might say that it's a set of broken combinations, that it's not something most DMs would allow, or any number of statements of personal dislike, but that's not what "cheating" means.</p><p></p><p>As for whether or not it was "easier" in 3E, that actually wasn't your point; your point was that the 2E combinations cited were somehow less legitimate, which is factually incorrect.</p><p></p><p>Actually, the one who shifted it to a "number of books" discussion was you, as you were the one who linked to Wikipedia and started listing titles; here's the <a href="https://www.enworld.org/threads/3-x-retrospective-19-years-in-production.678796/post-8229312" target="_blank">post where you did</a>, see? I simply pointed out that the example you were trying to make in doing so was flawed. Your "bad faith" claim is itself made in bad faith, ironically enough.</p><p></p><p>You keep using words like "ridiculous," "huge," "significant," "insane," and other terms of personal opinion in a failed attempt to present your opinions as facts. They're not. Five or six books of player-facing content in one year wasn't a notable amount of books for WotC to produce. Likewise, the idea that they "created some of the most abusive things" is a situation that only lasted until 2003, when those 3.0 books were rendered obsolete by the release of 3.5.</p><p></p><p>I don't disagree, I just don't think this was in any way unique to 3E in the manner you're suggesting.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Alzrius, post: 8229478, member: 8461"] If you think that "cheating" can't be objectively defined as "breaking the rules," then I'm not sure what to say except that you're using a definition of the word that's unique to you. Presumably you mean "something not allowed in my game," which is not what that word means to everyone else. Likewise, I'm fine with discussing 3E; don't forget that I did so when I demonstrated how your counting eight different books as containing player-facing content was wrong, since not all of those books had such content. Again, it's not cheating when it's entirely rules-legal. All of those campaign settings have in-universe connections, and all of the rules cited work in conjunction with all of the other rules listed, without any restrictions being violated. Ergo, it's not "cheating" per se. You might say that it's a set of broken combinations, that it's not something most DMs would allow, or any number of statements of personal dislike, but that's not what "cheating" means. As for whether or not it was "easier" in 3E, that actually wasn't your point; your point was that the 2E combinations cited were somehow less legitimate, which is factually incorrect. Actually, the one who shifted it to a "number of books" discussion was you, as you were the one who linked to Wikipedia and started listing titles; here's the [URL='https://www.enworld.org/threads/3-x-retrospective-19-years-in-production.678796/post-8229312']post where you did[/URL], see? I simply pointed out that the example you were trying to make in doing so was flawed. Your "bad faith" claim is itself made in bad faith, ironically enough. You keep using words like "ridiculous," "huge," "significant," "insane," and other terms of personal opinion in a failed attempt to present your opinions as facts. They're not. Five or six books of player-facing content in one year wasn't a notable amount of books for WotC to produce. Likewise, the idea that they "created some of the most abusive things" is a situation that only lasted until 2003, when those 3.0 books were rendered obsolete by the release of 3.5. I don't disagree, I just don't think this was in any way unique to 3E in the manner you're suggesting. [/QUOTE]
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