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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Cryptos" data-source="post: 4213696" data-attributes="member: 58439">Ultimately, the game effect of stats are the bonuses they provide, so I've started to focus on them instead of the stats, especially in d20 games.  Generation methods aside, I've found in recent years that I've just been adding up the stat bonuses and if they don't fall into a certain range that I find appropriate for the campaign, those stats get tossed and the player tries again.  So, if I'm looking to have a campaign where I think the characters would do OK with a combined stat bonus in the range of +6 to +8, for instance, then they can use whatever method they want to generate that character, as long as it falls in the range.  Roll as many times and however you like, or use a point buy method, or arbitrary selection, it doesn't matter - it turns out roughly the same.The range depends on the game.  For a few (very few) higher fantasy and things like an all-Jedi Star Wars campaign or a campaign adaptation of the Matrix, where these are Very Exceptional People, it's on the high side, perhaps a +9 to +11 or even +9 to +12 (the highest I've done) range.  For default or grittier fantasy, it's lower, perhaps +6 to +8 or +5 to +7.  However you generate it, bring me the first set of stats in that range passes the smell test, and that's your character.So if I'm playing in the +6 - +8 range and someone just wants to come up to me with an 18, 18, 10, 10, 10, 10, that's fine.  Or if they want to roll and come up with a 16, 16, 15, 11, 10, 10, that's fine.  Or point buy and come up with 14, 14, 14, 14, 10, 10, that's ok, too.  For arbitrary assignment, if I'm not in the mood for the person that thinks they're clever and walks up with a 15, 15, 15, 15, 11, 11, and I think the campaign will last long enough for it to matter, I might say that they have to choose even numbers if they're going with arbitrary assignment, or that at least half of their stats have to be even numbers (for greater parity with people that have mostly even stats as they level.)Yes, it tends to cause a lack of dump stats, but this works out pretty well for me.  I tend to prefer my games cinematic and heroic, and like to see characters that are at least average in most areas.  After years of roleplaying, you tend to plumb the depths of people roleplaying a character with a dump stat.  I've seen it all, from the rash barbarian with low wisdom to the awkward bookworm wizard with low charisma, the clumsy dwarf, the physically weak sorcerer... to me, it's sort of played out.  A few moments of comic relief aside, you don't usually see the big blockbuster heroes not being able to tie their shoes or pick up a sack full of junk, or so horribly uncouth and ugly that everyone recoils from them.  Even when stereotypes are played out, say in LotR, you don't see Frodo whining, "Gimliiiii, carry my backpack!" in the middle of an important scene; or Gimli slipping and losing his balance every time he stands on top of something.  There are occasional, plot-centric moments where someone's weakness comes into play, but in a game like D&D, the weaknesses constantly hanging there, whether through encumbrance, or having to be left out of every social encounter (or letting the encounter turn into a joke), etc.Heck, in Tolkien, it was the hobbits that were always bumbling and knocking things over, to wake up the monsters, and they're the ones with the Dexterity bonuses!  Sure, the cinematic experience is unrealistic, but dump stat roleplaying tends to make things unrealistic in the other direction.  Yes, I realize there are exceptions.  But they're exceptions.  While an exceptional roleplayer might be able to do a beautiful job with a dump stat, the other 90% of the time it's eventually going to derail the plot or overtake several scenes.  And you can still have the character that's not all that great socially without giving him a -2 to Charisma, by making him merely average (especially when he's in the company of other characters that are going to want a positive Charisma bonus.)My philosophy is that the player characters are a party of equals, in the sense that they are all peers of one another that will be growing in power together as they work together, and hopefully, if the game is more or less balanced, growing in power more or less equally.  So it makes sense for them to start off with an equal degree of competence, whether by specializing in one or two stats, or by being above average in three or four stats, etc.  As long as no one outstrips the others too much, and no one falls behind too much, and they make sense as an adventuring party, it works for me.  So I find myself caring less and less about how players want to do it.As long as they're more or less equal in bonuses, where they decide to put those bonuses or how they come up with them doesn't matter much to me, roll if you like rolling, buy if you like buying, throw little bits of paper into the air, or just scribble some numbers on a sheet of paper... as long as no one tries my patience by overplaying a dump stat.  I don't really feel like playing in a Jar-Jar Binks campaign (with a physical, social, or mental equivalent of Jar-Jar.)</blockquote>

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