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<blockquote data-quote="fanboy2000" data-source="post: 4962592" data-attributes="member: 19998">(Bolding mine)I agree that some of the complexity has moved from build/prep to gameplay, but I disagree that, given the same time frame, 3e was at the same complexity as 4e.18 Months into 3e's life cycle a very important rulebook was released that, IMO changed the game radically: The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. That book added both level adjustment and effective character level to the game. Rules that got incorporated and into the 3.5 core rulebooks. Those rules added much needed diversity and unneeded complexity to the character creation process.In addition to those fairly complete rules (in the sense that we knew that the rules were, even if we didn't know all the various level adjustment values for specific monster races) the book added epic level rules, with a hint that more such rules were going to follow.It also changed the way XP was given out. In the 3e DMG, a DM used the average party level to figure out XP. I.e., the DM would use the average party level in conjunction with the CR of the monster to get a single number that the DM would then divide by the number of PCs.In the FRCS, a DM was supposed to use a PC's individual level in conjunction with the monster's CR to find a number, divide that by the number of PCs, and then repeat that process for everyone else. Obviously, you didn't need to repeat the process for PCs of the same level. This change also made it into the 3.5 DMG 1 and it's one of the reasons I moved to level independent xp. I don't think that anything 4e has released in the past 18 months has added that level of complexity to the ruleset.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="fanboy2000, post: 4962592, member: 19998"] (Bolding mine) I agree that some of the complexity has moved from build/prep to gameplay, but I disagree that, given the same time frame, 3e was at the same complexity as 4e. 18 Months into 3e's life cycle a very important rulebook was released that, IMO changed the game radically: The Forgotten Realms Campaign Setting. That book added both level adjustment and effective character level to the game. Rules that got incorporated and into the 3.5 core rulebooks. Those rules added much needed diversity and unneeded complexity to the character creation process. In addition to those fairly complete rules (in the sense that we knew that the rules were, even if we didn't know all the various level adjustment values for specific monster races) the book added epic level rules, with a hint that more such rules were going to follow. It also changed the way XP was given out. In the 3e DMG, a DM used the average party level to figure out XP. I.e., the DM would use the average party level in conjunction with the CR of the monster to get a single number that the DM would then divide by the number of PCs. In the FRCS, a DM was supposed to use a PC's individual level in conjunction with the monster's CR to find a number, divide that by the number of PCs, and then repeat that process for everyone else. Obviously, you didn't need to repeat the process for PCs of the same level. This change also made it into the 3.5 DMG 1 and it's one of the reasons I moved to level independent xp. I don't think that anything 4e has released in the past 18 months has added that level of complexity to the ruleset. [/QUOTE]

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