3E, 4E and combat

[thecasualoblivion]

One of the biggest unspoken differences between 3E and 4E is that its difficult in 4E to deemphasize combat. What I mean by this is that in 3E, it was easy to downplay combat by using a combination of Rocket Tag and throwaway encounters. 4E has removed Rocket Tag entirely, and while you can do throwaway encounters, they still take significant time to resolve and are much less satisfying to engage in compared to the time they consume.

In my opinion, both 3E and 4E(and earlier edition) emphasize combat to a great degree in the system and rules as written. 4E doesn't emphasize combat more than 3E or previous editions for that matter, but what it does do is remove the ability to ignore/downplay combat by making encounters trivial or quickly resolved.

 

[Victim]

Rocket Tag?

 

[DeadlyUematsu]

Rocket Tag is basically another term for Save or Die. It's derived from FPSs.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

Rocket Tag?

Rocket Tag(inspired by multiplayer FPS video games with two or more players running around with Rocket Launchers) defined as abilities that either kill/disable or miss entirely, ending the battle in one action, possessed by both sides and depending heavily on initiative.

 

[Mort]

One of the biggest unspoken differences between 3E and 4E is that its difficult in 4E to deemphasize combat. What I mean by this is that in 3E, it was easy to downplay combat by using a combination of Rocket Tag and throwaway encounters. 4E has removed Rocket Tag entirely, and while you can do throwaway encounters, they still take significant time to resolve and are much less satisfying to engage in compared to the time they consume.

In my opinion, both 3E and 4E(and earlier edition) emphasize combat to a great degree in the system and rules as written. 4E doesn't emphasize combat more than 3E or previous editions for that matter, but what it does do is remove the ability to ignore/downplay combat by making encounters trivial or quickly resolved.

This one gets a big huh? from me. 4e makes throw away combats easier with things such as minion rules. If rocket tag is save or die - then good riddance.

As for combats taking longer, maybe its because my group went from an 11+ level game in 3.5 to a currently 2nd level game, but in 4e combat is running more smoothly and taking significantly less time (as the DM I'm cracking the books open much less even though it's a new system).

 

[Shadeydm]

This one gets a big huh? from me. 4e makes throw away combats easier with things such as minion rules.

This has been my experience as well, a large group of minions plus a few PCs with aoe spells does make for a trivial encounter.

 

[thecasualoblivion]

This has been my experience as well, a large group of minions plus a few PCs with aoe spells does make for a trivial encounter.

I would say too trivial. Does anyone even do this, or more specifically, does anyone do this and call it combat? In 3E you could send two standard Orcs against a party of four 3rd level characters. Trivial, though less so.

I guess what I'm trying to say is that while you can make trivial encounters for 4E, they aren't really a substitute for real combat. In 3E, this was a little more of a gray area.

 

[Mouseferatu]

In 3E you could send two standard Orcs against a party of four 3rd level characters. Trivial, though less so.

And in 4E, if you want, you can send, say two or three 3rd-level orcs against a party of four 3rd-level characters. And the result is a minor encounter that's not quite as "trivial" as if you used just minions.

Running combat-lite 4E is no harder than running combat-lite 3E. And that's direct experience talking.

 

[Walknot]

4E doesn't emphasize combat more than 3E or previous editions for that matter, but what it does do is remove the ability to ignore/downplay combat by making encounters trivial or quickly resolved.

As DM, your could deus ex machina and allow all attacks a +5 to hit. You can explain it as an effect, magical or mundane, that happens to make it quite hard to defend yourself in that particular encounter. Should wrap things up much faster.

 

[the Jester]

Running combat-lite 4E is no harder than running combat-lite 3E. And that's direct experience talking.

I'd even say that with rules for awarding xp for quests and skill tests, it's easier.

I've had a couple of sessions with virtually no combat, and they went great and even had rewards in them.