Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
3e/4e as Operating Systems: An Argument for Grognardism
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="trollwad" data-source="post: 3754100" data-attributes="member: 19187"><p>I'd bet there are more IT sophisticates reading this thread than MBA types but I'll throw this slightly broader analogy out there as well. D&D 4e is running the risk of being a Clayton Christiansen sort of an "overshoot." Christensen basically argues in books like The Innovator's Dilemna that companies succeed by serving their customers with an innovative product. Over time, they listen very closely to their customers (or more likely as in the case of D&D, their most verbal leading edge customers) but in doing so, over time they tend to "overshoot" the needs of their average customers or new customers (how many kids have you seen playing d&d vs. the 70s) -- ie they keep tacking on a bunch of "crap" functionality that no one wants which clutters up the game or change for change sake.</p><p></p><p>Microsoft Vista is a perfect example of this larger trend. Many people need a good browser upgraded frequently, plus desktop search, plus word/excel/outlook/power point. Fine, except for desktop search, we had all of those five years ago. What does Vista truly offer vis a vis windows five years ago? Except for security, it clearly is going beyond the needs of its AVERAGE customer. Is it a shocker that Linux and Mozilla are starting to appear?</p><p></p><p>Return the analogy to D&D. The leading edge loved 3.0 and 3.5 and probably will love 4.0. However, with each transition, is it just me or do you hear more about C&C, OSRIC, 1e, and all of this slew of OD&D type product, people who don't want to lose backward compatibility and dont want to go the trouble of adding leading edge functionality? Are C&C, OSRIC, etc the Linux to 4.0's Vista? If they aren't that today, will they be the Linux to 4.5's Vista?</p><p></p><p>I've argued before that WOTC has the wrong business model. Its amazing to me that smaller companies like Monte's business, Troll Lords, Paizo and Goodman can produce so much product apart from the core rules. I don't have WOTC's p&l, but I'd bet a lot of money that apart from sales of the core rule books (and a spurt of splat books every time they change editions), WOTC probably loses money. The point is that if the core fan starts to balk at the transition from 3.5 to 4.0 to 4.5 etc, WOTC's massive corporate overhead will eat them alive. For an illustration of the latter, why is it that Gygax and an editor could produce all of the core rules basically by himself, but WOTC needs this dubious-sounding "R&D team" (sounds like overhead to me) at least if the core fan ever balks at planned obsolescence. I think WOTC needs to cultivate the online market (they are taking baby steps here now, good idea) and it needs a simple low overhead basic business selling a stable heavily playtested 4.0 for a decade or more.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="trollwad, post: 3754100, member: 19187"] I'd bet there are more IT sophisticates reading this thread than MBA types but I'll throw this slightly broader analogy out there as well. D&D 4e is running the risk of being a Clayton Christiansen sort of an "overshoot." Christensen basically argues in books like The Innovator's Dilemna that companies succeed by serving their customers with an innovative product. Over time, they listen very closely to their customers (or more likely as in the case of D&D, their most verbal leading edge customers) but in doing so, over time they tend to "overshoot" the needs of their average customers or new customers (how many kids have you seen playing d&d vs. the 70s) -- ie they keep tacking on a bunch of "crap" functionality that no one wants which clutters up the game or change for change sake. Microsoft Vista is a perfect example of this larger trend. Many people need a good browser upgraded frequently, plus desktop search, plus word/excel/outlook/power point. Fine, except for desktop search, we had all of those five years ago. What does Vista truly offer vis a vis windows five years ago? Except for security, it clearly is going beyond the needs of its AVERAGE customer. Is it a shocker that Linux and Mozilla are starting to appear? Return the analogy to D&D. The leading edge loved 3.0 and 3.5 and probably will love 4.0. However, with each transition, is it just me or do you hear more about C&C, OSRIC, 1e, and all of this slew of OD&D type product, people who don't want to lose backward compatibility and dont want to go the trouble of adding leading edge functionality? Are C&C, OSRIC, etc the Linux to 4.0's Vista? If they aren't that today, will they be the Linux to 4.5's Vista? I've argued before that WOTC has the wrong business model. Its amazing to me that smaller companies like Monte's business, Troll Lords, Paizo and Goodman can produce so much product apart from the core rules. I don't have WOTC's p&l, but I'd bet a lot of money that apart from sales of the core rule books (and a spurt of splat books every time they change editions), WOTC probably loses money. The point is that if the core fan starts to balk at the transition from 3.5 to 4.0 to 4.5 etc, WOTC's massive corporate overhead will eat them alive. For an illustration of the latter, why is it that Gygax and an editor could produce all of the core rules basically by himself, but WOTC needs this dubious-sounding "R&D team" (sounds like overhead to me) at least if the core fan ever balks at planned obsolescence. I think WOTC needs to cultivate the online market (they are taking baby steps here now, good idea) and it needs a simple low overhead basic business selling a stable heavily playtested 4.0 for a decade or more. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
3e/4e as Operating Systems: An Argument for Grognardism
Top