[3E < 4E] How hard is it going to be to reverse engineer modules?

[Angel Tarragon]

So, I bought KotS and read it, thought it was a great adventure. Haven't actually run it. I was thinking earlier tonight that I might like to run it using 3E. I'm curious to know if anyone has done any reverse engineering on modules for 4E to 3E.

How hard a process is it going to be to do this?

 

[AllisterH]

I'm thinking about as tricky as converting a 1e/2e module to 3E.

Both 1e/2e and 4E assume a "many monsters/NPC vs PCs" encounter, and while there are of course Solo encounters in those editions, the default is definitely the former.

This is probably the biggest change you're going to have to worry about.

Another possible slighter difference is that the PCs in 4E might be expected to make more use of their skills than magic in a standard adventure due to the changes to stuff like knock and comprehend languages and the auto-levelling nature of skills.

 

[Angel Tarragon]

Another possible slighter difference is that the PCs in 4E might be expected to make more use of their skills than magic in a standard adventure due to the changes to stuff like knock and comprehend languages and the auto-levelling nature of skills.

I have absolutely no problem with this. As a matter of fact, I like it when modules rely on skills somewhat.

 

[Mustrum_Ridcully]

I'm thinking about as tricky as converting a 1e/2e module to 3E.

Both 1e/2e and 4E assume a "many monsters/NPC vs PCs" encounter, and while there are of course Solo encounters in those editions, the default is definitely the former.

This is probably the biggest change you're going to have to worry about.

That is probably the hardest. You will either have to give your PCs a higher level then assumed, or reduce the number of monsters used.

The advantage of a low level adventure is that the level range between 3E and 4E is not that big, and you should have an easy time creating Goblins and Kobolds.

Another possible slighter difference is that the PCs in 4E might be expected to make more use of their skills than magic in a standard adventure due to the changes to stuff like knock and comprehend languages and the auto-levelling nature of skills.

Since KotS is for levels 1-3, this will probably not make a big impact on the game.

---

But since you already have KotS - why not just play it with the quick-start rules included? Will probably cause the least of mechanical legwork, you get to test a new system. Only disadvantage is that your players can't freely create their own PC (and that might be a big one - proscribed characters just aren't as enjoying as self-made ones)

 

[Fenes]

It also depends on how much combat you want to have in the adventure. The less combat encounters you have, the easier it is to convert.

 

[Merlin the Tuna]

But since you already have KotS - why not just play it with the quick-start rules included? Will probably cause the least of mechanical legwork, you get to test a new system. Only disadvantage is that your players can't freely create their own PC (and that might be a big one - proscribed characters just aren't as enjoying as self-made ones)

Seconded. I don't think you're ever going to be able to do a great job of converting back from 4E to 3E if you don't get a good handle on the feel and flow of 4E. I'd advise giving the quickstart rules a shot as a learning experience for the future.

 

[radferth]

I'm finding the exhortations to play 4e rather creepy. Just normal gamer behavior to boost you favorite system, I suppose; but I don't recall conversion questions in the past having brought immediate multiple responses to use the system one was converting from. Granted, if I asked about converting an old Melee/Wizard Deathtest module to 3e or 4e or whatever, there likely wouldn't be anyone who liked that old pre-pre-GURPS system enough to advocate for it. Still, much of the 4e boosting here has almost a stealth-marketing feel, although I doubt that is literally the case.

 

[Mercule]

I'm finding the exhortations to play 4e rather creepy.

I don't see what's creepy about recommending someone have some experience with a system to convert something from it. I certainly wouldn't recommend someone try to convert a Hero adventure without having played at least one game of it.

If you're looking for mechanics-free adventure ideas, then there is no "conversion". I understood him to be asking about the mechanical differences and how those might work out. Essentially saying that they're subtle and a couple sessions of playing the system would help hardly seems sinister.

No one told him to leave 3.5 behind or to stop playing an inferior game. The only edition war here is what you bring with you.

 

[StreamOfTheSky]

I'm finding the exhortations to play 4e rather creepy. Just normal gamer behavior to boost you favorite system, I suppose; but I don't recall conversion questions in the past having brought immediate multiple responses to use the system one was converting from. Granted, if I asked about converting an old Melee/Wizard Deathtest module to 3e or 4e or whatever, there likely wouldn't be anyone who liked that old pre-pre-GURPS system enough to advocate for it. Still, much of the 4e boosting here has almost a stealth-marketing feel, although I doubt that is literally the case.

Yeah, I hear you.

To the OP, I'd say start them at level 3. 4E assumes high starting hp, every class can heal, and minion rules, all things you probably won't bother adding to your 3E rules just to make KotS fit.So, start them at about 3, maybe switch the minions for more regular kobolds, and adjust numbers to suit your judgement. I wouldn't bother trying to make the 4E kobolds fit 3E kobold rules and so on. Just call them a different breed or whatever. keep it simple, and just go by what looks like a fair challenge. There's no need to fiddle with the movement abilities, they'll just be something interesting to do, and 4E actions convert fairly easily to 3E. Move and standard actions are the same, minor ~= swift, immediate = immediate...

One thing you may want to consider is removing that racial feature to get better attack bonuses if they gang up on one poor sap. 3E already more heavily rewards singling out a target than 4E, and IME those bonuses were scary in 4E already.

 

[radferth]

I supposed if I am going to threadcrap, I should offer some legimate advice as well. In general, I use one of two approaches when I convert a module:

1) Just use the system non-specific stuff and stat everything from the ground up (e.g. worked great for a Tomb of Horror 3.0 conversion I did). This works well if the systems are very dissimilar, or if you just like making up stats from scratch. Of course questions that arise from this type of conversion are more along the lines of "How would you stat X?", so I assume you are trying...

2) Actually convert the stats of each creature to an appropriate version. Since 3e and 4e use basically the same combat engine (albeit with very different contestants) you could do much of the conversion on the fly, its just that the numbers wouldn't necessarily balance at all. I'd say raise the minions to 1HD, chop about 10-20 hp off of everybody else. I don't have the module, so I don't know if you would need to chop down the to-hit and AC as well, depends on your characters.

Oh, and take the rats off the ceiling.