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Message: <blockquote data-quote="N0Man" data-source="post: 5021851" data-attributes="member: 64066">Wait a minute... you are telling me that 4E critics are more likely to criticize based on the game than the players,  while at the same time generalizing those who prefer 4E as players who are defensive and criticize the players rather than the game?  I can't help but think that there's a certain level of irony in this statement.That aside, my experience and perspective has been quite different than this.  I have actually been called mathematically illiterate for not being bothered by 1:1 diagonals.  I have seen tons of characterizations of 4E players as being tweens and teens who are more used to MMO's than a real RPG.  I have seen countless instances of posters implying that 4E players prefer 4E's streamlined and simplified rules because they aren't smart enough to play 3E.  Or maybe I should point out how in this very thread the generalization was made several times that those who prefer 4E are insecure and defensive and feel a need to cheat on a poll in order to defend their own preference.  Or back to your very post where you imply that 4E supporters don't have arguments that have anything to do with the game, but rather just bashing those that prefer 3E.Please, do not even try to pretend that 4E bashers haven't regularly employed character attacks as part of their 4E critique.On the other hand, I can't think of a single instance of 4E supporters bashing 4E haters for anything other than being hateful spiteful trolls, which some of them were.I've played both, have enjoyed both, have criticized both, but have chosen 4E.  For me, though both have flaws, 4E has less flaws than 3E does.However, I do miss OGL.</blockquote>

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