Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
3E and the Feel of D&D
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Lanefan" data-source="post: 7849933" data-attributes="member: 29398"><p>Hmmm...while 3e did some other good things, that you choose to highlight these particular changes baffles me, as all are changes I personally would not have made.</p><p></p><p>In order:</p><p></p><p><strong>Evil PCs</strong> - it's an endless argument as to whether these should be allowed or not within an individual campaign, but the game system as a whole intentionally (trying to) remove or ban them is too much. The system default should be 'anything goes', leaving it up to each DM what to allow or not.</p><p></p><p>That said, on reading the original 3e books and then playing the game I never got the same sense of "PCs Shall Not Be Evil" that I did from the original 2e books. And you left Assassin in.</p><p></p><p><strong>Individual xp awards</strong> - removing this gave rise to that most awful of developments: the 'passenger' character who takes little or no risk but continues to advance while his-her braver companions die off. It also led to some truly bizarre arguments about whether characters not even present for an encounter should get xp for it - the rules said yes but logic and reason said no.</p><p></p><p>Also, shoehorning all classes into the same advancement chart removed what was otherwise a useful class-balance mechanism.</p><p></p><p><strong>Strongholds</strong> - there's currently a thread in here regarding mechanics people would like to see brought back, and strongholds/followers is high on the list. Building a stronghold (or a temple or guild or lab or college, depending on class) forces the PC to interact with the setting in much different (and usually more civilized) ways than the norm.</p><p></p><p>However, if strongholds are seen as too much focused on the individual PC, why not put in some guidelines and rules for how a whole party can build a keep or castle or stronghold as a home base?</p><p></p><p><strong>Thief-as-class </strong>- once you get past the 'theft' part and realize the class is also scout, spy, information gatherer, sneak, and lockpicker the 'Thief' name fits well. 'Rogue', the replacement name, doesn't somehow; as 'rogue' can describe anyone who doesn't follow rules - it would fit better as a generic name for Chaotics.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Lanefan, post: 7849933, member: 29398"] Hmmm...while 3e did some other good things, that you choose to highlight these particular changes baffles me, as all are changes I personally would not have made. In order: [B]Evil PCs[/B] - it's an endless argument as to whether these should be allowed or not within an individual campaign, but the game system as a whole intentionally (trying to) remove or ban them is too much. The system default should be 'anything goes', leaving it up to each DM what to allow or not. That said, on reading the original 3e books and then playing the game I never got the same sense of "PCs Shall Not Be Evil" that I did from the original 2e books. And you left Assassin in. [B]Individual xp awards[/B] - removing this gave rise to that most awful of developments: the 'passenger' character who takes little or no risk but continues to advance while his-her braver companions die off. It also led to some truly bizarre arguments about whether characters not even present for an encounter should get xp for it - the rules said yes but logic and reason said no. Also, shoehorning all classes into the same advancement chart removed what was otherwise a useful class-balance mechanism. [B]Strongholds[/B] - there's currently a thread in here regarding mechanics people would like to see brought back, and strongholds/followers is high on the list. Building a stronghold (or a temple or guild or lab or college, depending on class) forces the PC to interact with the setting in much different (and usually more civilized) ways than the norm. However, if strongholds are seen as too much focused on the individual PC, why not put in some guidelines and rules for how a whole party can build a keep or castle or stronghold as a home base? [B]Thief-as-class [/B]- once you get past the 'theft' part and realize the class is also scout, spy, information gatherer, sneak, and lockpicker the 'Thief' name fits well. 'Rogue', the replacement name, doesn't somehow; as 'rogue' can describe anyone who doesn't follow rules - it would fit better as a generic name for Chaotics. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
D&D Older Editions
3E and the Feel of D&D
Top