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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Kobold Boots" data-source="post: 5255686" data-attributes="member: 92239">So not really related to anything and just putting 2 cents in.I ran 1e AD&D for 8+ years.  I considered myself a systems master of that system because I grew up with it.I ran 2e AD&D briefly because my campaigns never took off as I was doing long-haired band stuff or long-haird SPO stuff.  I considered myself a luddite with those rules but I heard and felt that they were good regardless.  The whole GM feel/gut thing developed here.I ran 3e and 3.5 for 5+ years with some very large and diverse groups (multiple) because I had some time to do it and access to run things at a good sized game store with ample players.  I was also larping so I had some real rpers sitting at my home table when I wasn't at the store.. I felt that 3.0 and 3.5 were impossible to master efficiently as there was always another way to unbalance any attempt to balance a game.Therefore I accepted the kitchen sink approach, minimized combats to only the ones that furthered plot and kept people busy letting them all be cool.  It resulted in good times but other than rolling a d20 and the level progressions it didn't feel like I was playing D&DSo I took some 3 years off from D&D when that campaign ended and I got drawn into 4E after being asked to DM again and finding that a new edition had been released.  Here's the logic thread.1. F*** they put out a new edition.  I have all the 3.5 books.  What's the sunset on 3.5?2. F*** it's not being continued.  Double F*** there's this Pathfinder S*** out.3. My buddy is into Pathfinder.. This means there's no way that it's cool.. at all.**Note the above is not intended as a slant against PF, it's just my buddy in question is a major prop (Prop: Definition, looks like a tool, but has no use or purpose, is useless, hence a stage prop.. shortened to prop.).  If I had been turned on to PF by a lesser tool then maybe I'd have a different reaction.4. Lets look at 4E, I'll dl an illegal copy and erase it once I have an opinion.5. Read the copy and deleted it.  I already had a copy of D20 Everquest.  That stated, something stuck with me in the way the combats and powers worked.6. Realized that the power progression was just abstracted Vancian and grabbed a copy of the PH.  Rolled up some characters and fought them.7. Bought the DMG and MM1.. invited friends over.  The rest is history.Now here's my take after all that.1. 4E is a dream to run and easy to pick up much like other editions were.  2. Players can't mess up game balance without really trying hard.  I can go kitchen sink without fear and have tested this theory privately with crazy character combos via DDI.  This makes me happy like no edition of 3 could.3. This edition feels like 1E to me and will likely moreso once Essentials comes out.  Your mileage may vary.  I'm converted.  I'm a grognard playing 4e. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />So the core question: 1E - entirely playable as core only but no one did once they had Unearthed Arcana or Oriental Adventures.2E - entirely playable as core only but no one did once they had a splatbook.3E - entirely playable as core only but no one did once they had the second phb or a complete handbook.4E - not meant to be played with just the core, can be played but is advanced greatly by the other books.Considering the trend in the first three editions, do you blame them in 4e for building what the players were doing anyway?</blockquote>

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