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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Patryn of Elvenshae" data-source="post: 2551115" data-attributes="member: 23094">Actually, I think he's referring to this table:I don't see an entry for "uneven terrain."  Accordingly, you might decide that it counts as "Lightly Obstructed," or perhaps "Sloped or Angled," which ... Shock and amazement on my part ... both carry a modifier of +2 to the DC.In other words, it's exactly in line with my earlier suggestion that Tumbling off of a table might warrant a +2 DM's friend circumstance modifier to the DC.But again, and to turn your own words back on you, "you're missing the forest for the trees."We're arguing about whether the DC is 15 or 17 - which, for most characters, is not a material difference.  For the most part, either a character has no ranks in Tumble - in which case, they can't do this at all - or they've devoted a number of skill points to it, in which case the 2 point move isn't going to change the probability of success by a lot.And we're still using the same mechanic, the same skill, and roughly the same modifiers.Repeat that with me: We're arguing about whether the Tumble DC is 15 or 17 (or 25 or 27, depending on the route chosen).  We're not arguing about whether the PC can do it at all, what mechanic we should use, what ability score should modify this thing, etc.  We're 98% in agreement about who can do this and how hard this should be to do (a reasonably trained and naturally-gifted 1st-level character should be able to pull it off every time when he's under no particular pressure and ~50% of the time in combat).  We are arguing minutiae.This is an important distinction between 3E and every other edition of D&D.It covers jumping from one place to another safely, and it carries consquences for failed checks and some successful ones like falling prone.What's the DC to hop down from a table without falling?  The nearest thing the rules have to say about this is the DC 15 check to jump down 10' or more.  If it's less than 10', then there's no check required in the rules, because there's nothing that happens in the rules at less than 10'.  At 10' or more, a failed check or a successful untrained check which doesn't beat DC 20 results in you landing prone.Other than that, why add to the rules burden?Slight difference - I mentioned getting out of bed in the morning.  Beds are, occasionally, the same height as tables.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />Does it make it more intense?  It makes it so that anyone with an armor check penalty in excess of their strength fails more than 50% of the time when hopping down from a table and lands on their butt.And what's the TN?And I say that you're wrong, and we're, for nearly all intents and purposes, providing identical answers.You would not have such agreement under any other version of the D&D rules.</blockquote>

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