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Message: <blockquote data-quote="FireLance" data-source="post: 2555464" data-attributes="member: 3424">As silly as a 20th-level gnome monk killing a Huge mature adult red dragon (CR 18) with a single blow? A 20th-level gnome monk has a BAB of +15. Assuming Str 18 and a +5 enhancement bonus, that's an attack bonus of +25 which will enable him to hit the dragon's AC of 32 on a roll of 7 or better (70% chance). Assuming a Wisdom of 22, the DC of the gnome monk's quivering palm attack is 26. An average mature adult red dragon has a Fortitude save of +20, which means he fails 25% of the time (5 or less on d20). So, I make that a 17.5% chance of silliness. Now, before people start chiming with other reasons why a lower-level gnome that obviously isn't a monk can't intimidate a dragon when he and his party are on the losing end of a fight, think carefully about how you imagine an intimidated dragon would act. Do you see it cowering on the ground, pleading for its life? Is that the "impossible" situation you're trying to avoid? Guess what, the rules agree with you.If the gnome was attempting to demoralize in combat (a standard action), and he succeeds, the dragon is shaken. It gets a -2 penalty on attack rolls, saving throws, ability checks and skill checks. For 1 round. Is it "impossible" for the gnome to do or shout something so surprising or threatening that the dragon loses a bit of confidence for a short while? Remember, it's not running. It's still in the fight and still doing its level best to rip the party into shreds, just with a bit less skill.If the gnome was attempting to change the dragon's attitude, that takes a minute. If the gnome is still alive after a minute despite the dragon's best efforts, is it "impossible" for it to develop a bit of respect for the gnome? A successful Intimidate check merely makes the dragon act as if it was Friendly, i.e. chat, advise, offer limited help, advocate. It doesn't say anything about cowering, groveling or begging for its life.Basically: please look at what the rules actually say before you decide that you don't like the way they work. You may find out that thay actually do what you want them to.</blockquote>

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