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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 2576409" data-attributes="member: 18280">Agreed.If a wall is crumbling, the players certainly would know.&nbsp; If it was seriously crumbling, that fact would probably be part of the initial description of the area.&nbsp; If it was only sorta crumbling, when the PC guaged the wall to climb it, she ought to be told.Then she can think, &quot;Hmmm....probably harder than an ordinary brick wall.&quot;&nbsp; Then she can say, &quot;how badly is it crumbling?&quot; and the DM can say &quot;Not too badly&quot; (in which case she estimates the DC modifier as +2) or &quot;Pretty badly in places&quot; (maybe DC mod +2 to +4) or &quot;It breaks apart in your fingers&quot; (pretty serious modifier).&nbsp; While she doesn't know the exact DC, she knows enough to proceed.In another example, the character is climbing a simple wall when she encounters a patch of slimy mold.&nbsp; Now, this slimy mold isn't obvious, and is effectively a trap, so the DM requires a Spot check.&nbsp; If the slimy mold is a reasonably common climbing hazard (probably the case), the DM might allow a +2 synergy bonus to Spot if the PC has 5 or more ranks in Climb.In this particular case, no Disable Device is required; if the PC spots the slime, the DM tells her, and she simply goes around it and continues up the wall.&nbsp; If she does not spot the slime, she undergoes the effects of the hazard (probably a Climb check of some DC), and the DM tells her that her grip slipped due to some slippery mold....whether or not she succeeeds in the check.&nbsp; If she succeeds, great.&nbsp; Her skill at climbing prevented the unexpected hazard from being critical.&nbsp; If she fails, also great.&nbsp; The DM is neither giggling nor crying.&nbsp; Things happen in the game, for good or ill, and it is not the DM's job to either fudge in order to make the PCs' plans work or fail.RC</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 2576409, member: 18280"] Agreed. If a wall is crumbling, the players certainly would know. If it was seriously crumbling, that fact would probably be part of the initial description of the area. If it was only sorta crumbling, when the PC guaged the wall to climb it, she ought to be told. Then she can think, "Hmmm....probably harder than an ordinary brick wall." Then she can say, "how badly is it crumbling?" and the DM can say "Not too badly" (in which case she estimates the DC modifier as +2) or "Pretty badly in places" (maybe DC mod +2 to +4) or "It breaks apart in your fingers" (pretty serious modifier). While she doesn't know the exact DC, she knows enough to proceed. In another example, the character is climbing a simple wall when she encounters a patch of slimy mold. Now, this slimy mold isn't obvious, and is effectively a trap, so the DM requires a Spot check. If the slimy mold is a reasonably common climbing hazard (probably the case), the DM might allow a +2 synergy bonus to Spot if the PC has 5 or more ranks in Climb. In this particular case, no Disable Device is required; if the PC spots the slime, the DM tells her, and she simply goes around it and continues up the wall. If she does not spot the slime, she undergoes the effects of the hazard (probably a Climb check of some DC), and the DM tells her that her grip slipped due to some slippery mold....whether or not she succeeeds in the check. If she succeeds, great. Her skill at climbing prevented the unexpected hazard from being critical. If she fails, also great. The DM is neither giggling nor crying. Things happen in the game, for good or ill, and it is not the DM's job to either fudge in order to make the PCs' plans work or fail. RC [/QUOTE]

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