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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Primitive Screwhead" data-source="post: 2576901" data-attributes="member: 20805">Re: climbing. I climb fairly regularly. I can walk up to the bottem of a cliff, scan it.. and judge a basic 'ya, I can do that' or 'that looks too difficult for me'...and I admit I am not that good. A 5.7 stresses me, a 5.8 I have yet to beat. I look for slimy spots, crumbling rock. I know the difference between types of rocks as it applies to climbing quality. I don't know all the pitfalls, nor do I know the rating of the climb... but I know that I should be able to climb your standard medevial brick wall with relative ease.  I would expect the following discourse:GM: {description of area}Me: Okay, I want to climb the Brick wall on the right in order to {goal}GM: Sure.. as you approach the wall you notice that the combination of crumbling stone, vines, and recent rain will make this more difficult.. about at the limit of your ablities.Me: Eh.. well, since we are in a hurry and need to get over this fast, Mage.. do a burning Hands on this wall to get rid of those vines and dry it up..!Mage: {arcane invocation} Burn!!!Me: I would want to spend a minute searching for the best route, but can't waste the time. here I go! {roll roll roll} got a 27 {IC voice} scamble, pant, puff...{pause}GM: you fall off, the wall suddenly turned slick beneath your fingers..Me: {IC voice} Aaarrggh.. thud. Thats weird... the wall is keeping me from climbing it..Mage.. you still got that Fly spell?As opposed to:GM: {desciption of area}Me: Okay, I want to climb the Brick wall on the right in order to {goal}GM: Roll your skill checkMe: {roll roll roll} got a 27! {IC voice} scamble, pant, puff...{pause}GM: Missed the DC, you fall off..Me: WTF over? Its a brick wall! I beat the DC by 12!!!Players don't need to know exact DC's. They need to know that something tangible IC has affected thier ability to accomplish the skill. As DM, I try give estimates of chances based on the characters skills. In a group, I even go so far as 'this would be to difficult for Vellum to pull of, but Gort has a good chance at it'A DM stating DC's in play, in my opinion, is asking for meta-gaming from the players.My favorite player falls into one of two categories:  A> knows the rules and understands the flow of the game is more important that a rules debate  B> Doesn't know the rules and relies on the DM.Type B is harder to run as you have to explain why thier character, with no points in balance, really should not try the high-wire act over a stream of molten lava. My most hated player/DM type falls into one category: C> Beleives they know the rules, or a better rule than the one in the book..when in fact they dont comprehend the rule at all.These type of players/DM's are the ones that end up in rules debates whenever a ruling is made that inconvienances thier character..and oddly enough never when the ruling is in thier characters favor. 3E provides more rules to players to weild... and whether that player is a Type A or a Type C will depend on how this impacts your game.Rules are a tool.. more tools are only bad when the tool box falls off the roof when you are walking underneath  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />{edit}Heartily agree... and would put forth that 3E *can* be this system.</blockquote>

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