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<blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 2587331" data-attributes="member: 18280">KM,I broke up my reply so as not to confuse multiple issues.First off, I was pointing out that entertainment and fun are not always the same thing.&nbsp; I was not suggesting that D&amp;D should be like a book or a movie.Might I suggest, however, that there are qualities of books and movies that should be part of a D&amp;D experience.&nbsp; For example, the action resolution byword of 3.X is &quot;cinematic&quot;, right?&nbsp; Like a movie?D&amp;D is not literature, nor is it poker.&nbsp; But if I had to pick, I would say that it is a lot closer to open-ended literature than it is to poker.&nbsp; (I could have a long discussion, btw, about how literature is a lot less of a one-way conduit than film, but that is probably best left to another thread.)&nbsp; You are right when you suggest that I expect more from my D&amp;D experiences than just a night of fun gaming.&nbsp; My players expect more, too.&nbsp; Unlike you, we do not expect Chutes and Ladders when we come to the gaming table.&nbsp; Safe?&nbsp; Fun?&nbsp; Sure, but we do not expect it to be easy.It seems odd to me that including meaning to something would make you see it as &quot;shallow&quot; -- in fact, it seems that logic would dictate that absolving something of depth would make it shallow, not the reverse.Then again, if you view the game as &quot;five folks rolling dice around someone's table and pretending to be gumdrop fairies,&quot; and that works for you, that's fine.&nbsp; Pursuit of happiness and all that.&nbsp; I'll even support your right of free speech and agree that you have the right to proclaim that this is the best way to experience D&amp;D.I will not, however, be joining you.&nbsp; Nor will you be joining me.RC</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Raven Crowking, post: 2587331, member: 18280"] KM, I broke up my reply so as not to confuse multiple issues. First off, I was pointing out that entertainment and fun are not always the same thing. I was not suggesting that D&D should be like a book or a movie. Might I suggest, however, that there are qualities of books and movies that should be part of a D&D experience. For example, the action resolution byword of 3.X is "cinematic", right? Like a movie? D&D is not literature, nor is it poker. But if I had to pick, I would say that it is a lot closer to open-ended literature than it is to poker. (I could have a long discussion, btw, about how literature is a lot less of a one-way conduit than film, but that is probably best left to another thread.) You are right when you suggest that I expect more from my D&D experiences than just a night of fun gaming. My players expect more, too. Unlike you, we do not expect Chutes and Ladders when we come to the gaming table. Safe? Fun? Sure, but we do not expect it to be easy. It seems odd to me that including meaning to something would make you see it as "shallow" -- in fact, it seems that logic would dictate that absolving something of depth would make it shallow, not the reverse. Then again, if you view the game as "five folks rolling dice around someone's table and pretending to be gumdrop fairies," and that works for you, that's fine. Pursuit of happiness and all that. I'll even support your right of free speech and agree that you have the right to proclaim that this is the best way to experience D&D. I will not, however, be joining you. Nor will you be joining me. RC [/QUOTE]

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