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Message: <blockquote data-quote="helium3" data-source="post: 2588957" data-attributes="member: 31301">You're entirely correct that both the players and the DM's need to have fun. That's the point of the game. Sometimes though, I think that players lose sight of the idea that what's fun for players isn't necessarily fun for DM's. With players, generally the enjoyment of the game is rolled up in creating characters, running them through encounters, watching them become more powerful and building up a group oral history about things that have happened in and out of game.With DM's, they don't quite get to do this. Yes the DM gets to participate in creating the oral history by being the person that places the encounters, but it's not the same as being one of the people controlling the prime movers. As the DM, you never really get to "win" or do anything pro-active. I think it's a bit analgous to the differences between the coach of a team and the players of said team. Sure the coach has significant input into the success of the team as a whole, but it's the players that are ultimately responsible for whether or not games are won.From my experience, players often need to make sure that they pay attention to what it is that makes a DM's experience enjoyable. Obviously, if being an egomaniac and punishing players is what floats the DM's boat, the players should find someone else to do the job. I think that many DM's find the game most enjoyable when the players show interest in the setting, start asking questions about it and try to play characters that "fit." Things become problematic when players insist on running characters that don't "fit" and generally don't give a thought to whether or not what their characters are doing things that make sense within the context of the setting. Conversely, DM's need to take time to find out what it is that their players find enjoyable, and modify their setting to incorporate that. However, given the burden of work necessary on the part of the DM to get the game rolling, I think the lions share of compromise is on the part of the players. They need to find a way to satisfy whatever itch it is that's motivating them within the context of what the DM is attempting to create. If they can't satisfy that itch, then the DM should generally find a way to allow it to be satisfied, unless the itch is something like "I want to be the best and make all the other players feel inadequate."All in all, this IMHO optimal style of gaming requires a lot of communication between DM and Player about what both roles want out of the game. If this communication doesn't happen or either side is unwilling to compromise, then the game generally sucks for some if not all of the people involved. In situations where someone wants something radically different and is unwilling to compromise, it's best to just cut the losses and ask that person to leave. After all, the point is to have fun, not dread gaming sessions.</blockquote>

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