D&D 3E/3.5 3e Newbie Qtn: SURPRISE

[taliesin15]

thanks for the replies on weapon prof/elf wizard, btw

Here's another question: reading the 3rd Edition AD&D rules, I get the impression that Surprise is pretty much at the discretion of the DM per nature of the initial encounter between party and monster. Whereas in the first edition rules, it was handled in a similar manner as Initiative rolls are handled in the 3rd edition: i.e. the party (or individual players) rolls die, and the monster rolls a die (unless the DM decides one member of the monster party might be acting independently)...

in 1st edition the SURPRISE factor is determined by respective rolls of a d6--as someone contemplating a 3rd edition campaign it seems that this old system is more workable than judging on a case by case basis--including racial and class bonuses (like implementation of LISTEN skills, etc)

so my question is: Is there some kind of die roll I'm missing in PHB/DMG 3rd edition, or is it a matter of DM discretion (independent of initiative rolls, needless to say)?

 

[Planesdragon]

Surprise is usually handled by DM's judgement. However, there are two important things to note:

1: Each character in a combat is essentially surprised until they take their first action--they're "flat footed." A rogue that gets initative on someone can start the fight with a sneak attack, even if it's just throwing a dagger at the enemy wizard from 30 feet away.

2: "Surprise rounds" are often best done by use of the Listen skill. Barring no other situations, a DC 5 for each quiet party (-1 per member) Listen check should be enough to notice them. Only those that roll poorly will fail--and if the other side is talking or fighting, the base DC would be 0--meaning that, barring exceptional concealment or distance, there wouldn't be any chance of failure.

You could also have the PCs and the NPCs make opposed listen checks, with the highest roll being the first to notice the other side.

 

[Spatula]

The 1st edition system wasn't all that workable, since the exceptions to the regular surprise rules did not mesh well together. Our DM does miss blurting out, "Roll for surprise!" though.

Anyway, surprise in 3E is handled by Hide/Move Silently checks opposed by Spot/Listen checks. If the players stumble into a prepared ambush, the players make Spot checks with a DC equal to the result of the ambushers' Hide check, modified by the normal factors (light, distance, etc.). For the sake of simplicity I normally assume the ambushers are taking 10. Players that notice the ambushers are not surprised and can act in the surprise round on their initiative count. Players that fail the Spot check cannot act until after the surprise count.