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3E to 4E Gripes (Was: What Did You Want Fourth Edition to be Like?)
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<blockquote data-quote="Aberzanzorax" data-source="post: 4689917" data-attributes="member: 64209"><p>@Ferratus</p><p> </p><p>What I had meant was not that conversions for older materials couldn't be undertaken...of course you can convert a 1e module to 3e or to 4e. 4e might even be easier.</p><p> </p><p>What my gripe was, was: the huge changes of fluff and retrofluff. I don't mind huge changes in rules...and I think we can all agree they've been huge.</p><p> </p><p>What I do mind is that I'll get no more "compatible fluff". Sure I can convert the old stuff and play the old forgotten realms with new 4e rules. What I can't do is continue to play the old forgotten realms with new fluff added. I would have to play a very different realms. This is true for the planes, certain races added or changed, the whole demons, devils, paragon elementals, etc.</p><p> </p><p>I guess what I meant is that with the 3e fluff, I could intersperse 1st, 2nd, and 3rd edition adventures with minimal fluff changes. If I want to also intersperse 4e materials, major fluff changes need to happen.</p><p> </p><p>That bums me out, and was not, in my opinion, a necessary part of the changes in making a new edition. Change the rules, but don't change the story.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>What defines D&D? Is it the rules or the story or both? If you change both, is it still D&D? (This is a philosophical argument, not a claim that 4e isn't D&D. It's akin to the Ship of Theseus, wherein the boards of the ship gradually rot and are replaced over time. Eventually, the boards are all new. The question becomes, is it the same ship? This is complicated by variations of, what if you built an identical ship out of new boards; what if you took all the old boards and built an identical ship, etc). I don't know, I'm not outraged that they did this, but I wish they had added without wiping the slate clean so dramatically storywise.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Aberzanzorax, post: 4689917, member: 64209"] @Ferratus What I had meant was not that conversions for older materials couldn't be undertaken...of course you can convert a 1e module to 3e or to 4e. 4e might even be easier. What my gripe was, was: the huge changes of fluff and retrofluff. I don't mind huge changes in rules...and I think we can all agree they've been huge. What I do mind is that I'll get no more "compatible fluff". Sure I can convert the old stuff and play the old forgotten realms with new 4e rules. What I can't do is continue to play the old forgotten realms with new fluff added. I would have to play a very different realms. This is true for the planes, certain races added or changed, the whole demons, devils, paragon elementals, etc. I guess what I meant is that with the 3e fluff, I could intersperse 1st, 2nd, and 3rd edition adventures with minimal fluff changes. If I want to also intersperse 4e materials, major fluff changes need to happen. That bums me out, and was not, in my opinion, a necessary part of the changes in making a new edition. Change the rules, but don't change the story. What defines D&D? Is it the rules or the story or both? If you change both, is it still D&D? (This is a philosophical argument, not a claim that 4e isn't D&D. It's akin to the Ship of Theseus, wherein the boards of the ship gradually rot and are replaced over time. Eventually, the boards are all new. The question becomes, is it the same ship? This is complicated by variations of, what if you built an identical ship out of new boards; what if you took all the old boards and built an identical ship, etc). I don't know, I'm not outraged that they did this, but I wish they had added without wiping the slate clean so dramatically storywise. [/QUOTE]
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