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<blockquote data-quote="StreamOfTheSky" data-source="post: 4608906" data-attributes="member: 35909">I think you can go to 10-11th level and be ok.&nbsp; 12 seems to be a watershed level (everything goes up), much like 6 (which is where the casters start to take the lead in the power balance, IME).&nbsp; 18 is also such a level, but by then things are too out of hand for it to even matter much anymore.I also think the ToB classes help make melee fighters still a relevant threat even much later into the arms race, though they'll eventually need some means of fighting the greater blinking wizard, etc...[sblock]ToB introduces new problems, though.&nbsp; The damage dealing can get obscene, and doesn't require the situational circumstances for other similar feats of math like the mounted charge.&nbsp;&nbsp; In my current gestalt game, whenever the party is in dire straights, instead of hunkering down and taking more defensive options, they just desperately ramp up the offense as much as they can in one giant burst, hoping it kills off the enemies.&nbsp; No amount of resource draining (current dungeon they even ran through all their healing supplies it's gone on for so long) can get them out of this habit, because 3/4 of them have refreshable, and thus unlimited, uses of maneuvers.&nbsp;&nbsp; It's really starting to annoy me, they'd rather martyr themselves in a blaze of glory than just be more defensive and win with attrition.&nbsp; Ah well, how did this turn into a rant?[/sblock]The biggest possible issue with going to the double digits (as opposed to say...level 6,like E6 does) is that scrying and teleporting become available.&nbsp; That said, &quot;Scry-Buff-Teleport&quot; has, as of yet, remained strictly a messageboard phenomenon and hasn't happened in my games.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="StreamOfTheSky, post: 4608906, member: 35909"] I think you can go to 10-11th level and be ok. 12 seems to be a watershed level (everything goes up), much like 6 (which is where the casters start to take the lead in the power balance, IME). 18 is also such a level, but by then things are too out of hand for it to even matter much anymore. I also think the ToB classes help make melee fighters still a relevant threat even much later into the arms race, though they'll eventually need some means of fighting the greater blinking wizard, etc... [sblock]ToB introduces new problems, though. The damage dealing can get obscene, and doesn't require the situational circumstances for other similar feats of math like the mounted charge. In my current gestalt game, whenever the party is in dire straights, instead of hunkering down and taking more defensive options, they just desperately ramp up the offense as much as they can in one giant burst, hoping it kills off the enemies. No amount of resource draining (current dungeon they even ran through all their healing supplies it's gone on for so long) can get them out of this habit, because 3/4 of them have refreshable, and thus unlimited, uses of maneuvers. It's really starting to annoy me, they'd rather martyr themselves in a blaze of glory than just be more defensive and win with attrition. Ah well, how did this turn into a rant?[/sblock] The biggest possible issue with going to the double digits (as opposed to say...level 6,like E6 does) is that scrying and teleporting become available. That said, "Scry-Buff-Teleport" has, as of yet, remained strictly a messageboard phenomenon and hasn't happened in my games. [/QUOTE]

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