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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Yora" data-source="post: 9231885" data-attributes="member: 6670763">Disguise lets you impersonate a specific individual, and the skill description lists the modifiers other NPCs get to their sense motive check, based on how well they know that person.If they know the person and would recognize him on the street, it's +4.If they are personally acquainted, it's +6.If they are friends, it's +8If they are close family, it's +10,For a regular person, that's a Sense Motive roll of 11 to 30 to recognize someone impersonating your father or wife.A 5th level bard with 16 Charisma could have +13 to that Disguise roll without even trying any optimization shenanigans. That's a more than 50% chance to pull off something that should be impossible with only a modest training. Cast a simple 1st level disguise self and you boost your roll to +23. Even if the person rolls a 20 on sense motive, you still only need an 8 to pull it off.--I was having a shower thought about how Diplomacy might be somewhat salvaged.Instead of making the Diplomacy roll to change the target's whole attitude, have one Diplomacy roll made for one single specific request. Which in the case of a hostile monster could just be "Please, don't kill me!"Getting to unfriendly (DC 20) could see you taken prisoner or chases away with the assurance of death if you show yourself again.Indifferent (DC 25) could see you just thrown out of the current place. The creature still hates you, but just wants the current confrontation be over with.Friendly (DC 35), the creature might have some mercy on you and tell you how to best get out without running into anyone else who might not be as sympathetic.And helpful (DC 50), the creature might actually help you getting past its friends who are in the way of escape to freedom.Sure, when you have a character with +45 to Diplomacy checks, then you still get really weird adventures. But I would say that's the case for any skill that is at +45. But getting an enemy to agree to one request is a very different situation from making an enemy into a loyal ally.And in any event, helpful means a creature will take some risk and provide some support to help you. But it still has the same commitment to its friends and allies and won't throw all it can offer behind furthering your cause. It becomes friendly or helpful to you. It does not switch sides.</blockquote>

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