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<blockquote data-quote="Pedantic" data-source="post: 9271453" data-attributes="member: 6690965">This tangent started with a discussion of embracing 3.0 style long-term buffing, thus that you're generally determining the buff vs. active spell ratio at the start of the adventuring day and I've been assuming that's the paradigm we're discussing. You're right that I wasn't accounting sensibly for active spell-use items which is definitely something that would need to be resolved, but that's an endemic issue in 3.5 to begin with. Heck, or traps if you get into those.Oh, both is good, but I'm less concerned with class balance in the specific than the overall role/structure of buffs. That, and I'm not sure we should jump straight to buffing as a superior option to other spells. In classic 3.5, buff spells that mimic magic items are generally frowned on, even when they would have been effective (see Magic Weapon, Fox's Cunning and variants). I think making buffs and magic items compete directly is a better take than circling around bonus stacking.What is the counterfactual you're drawing? I feel like, if buff spells are references to a specific set of 6 slots and the non-buff case is roughly 75% effectiveness relative to buffs, the no-caster party and the active-caster party are still better off than the default 3.5 situation.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Pedantic, post: 9271453, member: 6690965"] This tangent started with a discussion of embracing 3.0 style long-term buffing, thus that you're generally determining the buff vs. active spell ratio at the start of the adventuring day and I've been assuming that's the paradigm we're discussing. You're right that I wasn't accounting sensibly for active spell-use items which is definitely something that would need to be resolved, but that's an endemic issue in 3.5 to begin with. Heck, or traps if you get into those. Oh, both is good, but I'm less concerned with class balance in the specific than the overall role/structure of buffs. That, and I'm not sure we should jump straight to buffing as a superior option to other spells. In classic 3.5, buff spells that mimic magic items are generally frowned on, even when they would have been effective (see Magic Weapon, Fox's Cunning and variants). I think making buffs and magic items compete directly is a better take than circling around bonus stacking. What is the counterfactual you're drawing? I feel like, if buff spells are references to a specific set of 6 slots and the non-buff case is roughly 75% effectiveness relative to buffs, the no-caster party and the active-caster party are still better off than the default 3.5 situation. [/QUOTE]

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