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<blockquote data-quote="nevin" data-source="post: 9721673" data-attributes="member: 7024481">that's&nbsp;true but even people who aren't nuisances get frustrated and fights occur when they buy rule books and are then told they can't use the new &quot;flavor of the month&quot; prestige class, race etc.&nbsp; &nbsp; The lack of control over what they released and how it interacted with the game. (to be fair thier design goal was everything's possible but it's up to your DM what he allows&quot;.&nbsp; Created many many avoidable frustrations between DM's and players.&nbsp; I had many friends in the 3.0 era that just quit DM'ing over it.&nbsp; I don't remember an other version with the amount of conflict over what someone just pulled out of an official &quot;DND&quot; book.&nbsp;&nbsp; And I see it from both sides.&nbsp; Sucks to go buy an official book lets say the &quot;Barbarian Handbook&quot; because I remember it well and then be told &quot;no&quot; because the barbarian class in it got a freaking tiger mount at level one that was better in every way than the entire freaking party at combat.&nbsp;&nbsp; The player wanted He-man and if you are playing that game and you can give the other players stuff to keep up that's fine. But if you are just starting a basic game then as DM of course it's &quot;NOPE&quot;.&nbsp;&nbsp; But then you were the bad guy refusing to use Wizards of the Coasts rules.&nbsp;&nbsp; It was a freaking mess and both DM's and Players had the right to be mad at it from both directions.&nbsp; &nbsp; Wizards simply punted on the idea of quality control and standards and that eventually created PF 1E.&nbsp;&nbsp; which only patched the problems and created a game where things simply don't make logical sense because of all the random &quot;NOPE that doesn't work&quot; rulings and rules that make the entire game an illogical mess.&nbsp; Which starts a whole different kind of argument with players when you are trying to justify bizarre things like why wall of Iron is permanant but the iron can't be melted down and reworked into actually functional iron things.&nbsp; But it's iron enough to stop a dragon's breath.&nbsp;&nbsp; but why is wall of stone good enough to make a castle wall?&nbsp;&nbsp; Just because my friend just because.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="nevin, post: 9721673, member: 7024481"] that's true but even people who aren't nuisances get frustrated and fights occur when they buy rule books and are then told they can't use the new "flavor of the month" prestige class, race etc. The lack of control over what they released and how it interacted with the game. (to be fair thier design goal was everything's possible but it's up to your DM what he allows". Created many many avoidable frustrations between DM's and players. I had many friends in the 3.0 era that just quit DM'ing over it. I don't remember an other version with the amount of conflict over what someone just pulled out of an official "DND" book. And I see it from both sides. Sucks to go buy an official book lets say the "Barbarian Handbook" because I remember it well and then be told "no" because the barbarian class in it got a freaking tiger mount at level one that was better in every way than the entire freaking party at combat. The player wanted He-man and if you are playing that game and you can give the other players stuff to keep up that's fine. But if you are just starting a basic game then as DM of course it's "NOPE". But then you were the bad guy refusing to use Wizards of the Coasts rules. It was a freaking mess and both DM's and Players had the right to be mad at it from both directions. Wizards simply punted on the idea of quality control and standards and that eventually created PF 1E. which only patched the problems and created a game where things simply don't make logical sense because of all the random "NOPE that doesn't work" rulings and rules that make the entire game an illogical mess. Which starts a whole different kind of argument with players when you are trying to justify bizarre things like why wall of Iron is permanant but the iron can't be melted down and reworked into actually functional iron things. But it's iron enough to stop a dragon's breath. but why is wall of stone good enough to make a castle wall? Just because my friend just because. [/QUOTE]

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