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D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
4.1E - now without classes
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<blockquote data-quote="Ambush Bug" data-source="post: 4288813" data-attributes="member: 69008"><p>I got my copy of the 4E PHB yesterday afternoon. It looks like a game with a lot of interesting elements, bundled in a package that railroads you into one particular play experience. That's fine if you want to spend all your time crawling through dungeons and killing what you find, but less fine if you want your characters to be focused on things beyond killing. Here are the changes I'm considering; I'd be interested in anyone's feedback.</p><p></p><p></p><p>POWERS: Characters are now based on their powers - you don't even make attack rolls much anymore, you just use a power that involves attacking. Trouble is, 85% of the powers are designed to be used in combat. Combined with the gutting of the skill system, this pushes characters (and therefore adventures) into constant tactical combat situations. The lists of powers need to be expanded so they have more non-combat physical options (climbing, jumping, etc.). I'd also like to see social options - you could do some cool stuff with social powers.</p><p></p><p>ABILITY SCORES: Instead of handing out specific scores to characters like the book says, give everyone 75 points to distribute among their 6 abilities as they see fit. That lets you have the horribly clumsy dude who's extra intelligent, if you want that kind of play experience. The players I know want it. And you can easily alter the power scale of your campaign by adding or subtracting: 60 points gives you a commoner, while 100 would be a young demigod.</p><p></p><p>LANGUAGES: Why can't first-level characters speak Abyssal? It's the default language of gnolls (among others). I know my players. Some of their characters will have been raised by gnolls. If only because they want to speak Abyssal.</p><p></p><p>DRAGONBORN: Female reptiles should not have breasts. End of discussion. It would be cool if the dragonborn had more racial powers to choose from than just breath weapons. </p><p></p><p>ELADRIN: Hey, look! It's the Noldor Elves from Tolkien!</p><p></p><p>ELVES: And the Sindarin! The "Group Awareness" ability doesn't make sense - why am I more perceptive just because a friendly elf is standing a few yards away? I could see "Group Stealth" instead.</p><p></p><p>HALF-ELVES: The "Group Diplomacy" ability also doesn't make sense, for the same reason as above. I'm still figuring out a good replacement. Instead of a cross-class power, they can pick one at-will power of their chosen Power Source (see the CLASSES entry below) to use as a per-encounter power.</p><p></p><p>CLASSES AND THEIR POWERS: Your choice of class is integral to your character, and nearly irrevocable. I don't like having that kind of limitation slapped on my character. Fortunately, you can eliminate classes without ruining the game. All the classes in the PHB are based around one kind of Power Source: Arcane, Divine, or Martial. So when you make a character, pick one of those three sources as your primary. Half of your at-will powers, per-encounter powers, and daily powers must come from the class lists belonging to that primary source. The other half can come from any list you like. GMs can alter this to set up any style of campaign they want: for example, nobody's allowed to take any Arcane powers, or every character must start with at least one Divine power.</p><p></p><p>DEFENSES: In a classless game, just let each player decide where to put this +2, including splitting it between two saves.</p><p></p><p>STARTING OUT: New classless characters get 12 HP, 5 HP/level, 6 Healing Surges/day (plus bonus ones from Con), 4 skills of their choice, proficiency with cloth armor, and proficiency with 5 other weapon/armor/shield types of their choice.</p><p></p><p>FEATURES: New classless characters get 5 Features of their choice. This includes any Class Feature; increasing HP to 15 new and 6/level; 2 more daily Healing Surges; 2 more skills; or 3 more choices of weapon/armor/shield proficiency. Certain Class Features count as two choices (Channel Divinity/Cleric; Channel Divinity/Paladin; Sneak Attack; Eldritch Pact [only 1 Pact/character]; Cantrips; Spellbook). If you take a Class Feature that comes from a different Power Source than your primary source, it uses an additional choice. For example, a Martial character who wants to have the Arcane class feature of Cantrips will have to use 3 choices for it.</p><p></p><p>GETTING MORE FEATURES: You can get another Feature by reducing your HP to 10/4, or your starting wpn/armor/shield proficiencies to 3.</p><p></p><p>SKILLS: Put the "take a 20" rule back in. It's a good rule. And the Craft, Perform, and Profession skills from 3rd edition fill useful niches outside combat (and sometimes inside it). I also wonder if Disguise and Handle Animal could be reintroduced.</p><p></p><p>FEATS: Feats that currently have class membership as a prereq will instead have that class's Power Source type as a prereq. All the multiclassing feats are eliminated. Is there a feat or something that gives you a new skill? If not, there needs to be.</p><p></p><p></p><p>...and that's what I've come up with after a day's review of the PHB. I think these rules would allow for more flexible character design without compromising the game's mechanical balance. Any opinions would be welcome.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Ambush Bug, post: 4288813, member: 69008"] I got my copy of the 4E PHB yesterday afternoon. It looks like a game with a lot of interesting elements, bundled in a package that railroads you into one particular play experience. That's fine if you want to spend all your time crawling through dungeons and killing what you find, but less fine if you want your characters to be focused on things beyond killing. Here are the changes I'm considering; I'd be interested in anyone's feedback. POWERS: Characters are now based on their powers - you don't even make attack rolls much anymore, you just use a power that involves attacking. Trouble is, 85% of the powers are designed to be used in combat. Combined with the gutting of the skill system, this pushes characters (and therefore adventures) into constant tactical combat situations. The lists of powers need to be expanded so they have more non-combat physical options (climbing, jumping, etc.). I'd also like to see social options - you could do some cool stuff with social powers. ABILITY SCORES: Instead of handing out specific scores to characters like the book says, give everyone 75 points to distribute among their 6 abilities as they see fit. That lets you have the horribly clumsy dude who's extra intelligent, if you want that kind of play experience. The players I know want it. And you can easily alter the power scale of your campaign by adding or subtracting: 60 points gives you a commoner, while 100 would be a young demigod. LANGUAGES: Why can't first-level characters speak Abyssal? It's the default language of gnolls (among others). I know my players. Some of their characters will have been raised by gnolls. If only because they want to speak Abyssal. DRAGONBORN: Female reptiles should not have breasts. End of discussion. It would be cool if the dragonborn had more racial powers to choose from than just breath weapons. ELADRIN: Hey, look! It's the Noldor Elves from Tolkien! ELVES: And the Sindarin! The "Group Awareness" ability doesn't make sense - why am I more perceptive just because a friendly elf is standing a few yards away? I could see "Group Stealth" instead. HALF-ELVES: The "Group Diplomacy" ability also doesn't make sense, for the same reason as above. I'm still figuring out a good replacement. Instead of a cross-class power, they can pick one at-will power of their chosen Power Source (see the CLASSES entry below) to use as a per-encounter power. CLASSES AND THEIR POWERS: Your choice of class is integral to your character, and nearly irrevocable. I don't like having that kind of limitation slapped on my character. Fortunately, you can eliminate classes without ruining the game. All the classes in the PHB are based around one kind of Power Source: Arcane, Divine, or Martial. So when you make a character, pick one of those three sources as your primary. Half of your at-will powers, per-encounter powers, and daily powers must come from the class lists belonging to that primary source. The other half can come from any list you like. GMs can alter this to set up any style of campaign they want: for example, nobody's allowed to take any Arcane powers, or every character must start with at least one Divine power. DEFENSES: In a classless game, just let each player decide where to put this +2, including splitting it between two saves. STARTING OUT: New classless characters get 12 HP, 5 HP/level, 6 Healing Surges/day (plus bonus ones from Con), 4 skills of their choice, proficiency with cloth armor, and proficiency with 5 other weapon/armor/shield types of their choice. FEATURES: New classless characters get 5 Features of their choice. This includes any Class Feature; increasing HP to 15 new and 6/level; 2 more daily Healing Surges; 2 more skills; or 3 more choices of weapon/armor/shield proficiency. Certain Class Features count as two choices (Channel Divinity/Cleric; Channel Divinity/Paladin; Sneak Attack; Eldritch Pact [only 1 Pact/character]; Cantrips; Spellbook). If you take a Class Feature that comes from a different Power Source than your primary source, it uses an additional choice. For example, a Martial character who wants to have the Arcane class feature of Cantrips will have to use 3 choices for it. GETTING MORE FEATURES: You can get another Feature by reducing your HP to 10/4, or your starting wpn/armor/shield proficiencies to 3. SKILLS: Put the "take a 20" rule back in. It's a good rule. And the Craft, Perform, and Profession skills from 3rd edition fill useful niches outside combat (and sometimes inside it). I also wonder if Disguise and Handle Animal could be reintroduced. FEATS: Feats that currently have class membership as a prereq will instead have that class's Power Source type as a prereq. All the multiclassing feats are eliminated. Is there a feat or something that gives you a new skill? If not, there needs to be. ...and that's what I've come up with after a day's review of the PHB. I think these rules would allow for more flexible character design without compromising the game's mechanical balance. Any opinions would be welcome. [/QUOTE]
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