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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9009379" data-attributes="member: 6801228">What was the percentage?Fighters and Barbarians don't get Spike Growth. So, it ends up not being useful unless someone else is giving it something to react off of. So what do you do if no one casts Spike Growth for you?They get only one more than the Rogue, who gets many skill boosts, and they don't get feats earlier than other people, they get the first feat at level 4, just like everyone  else. Compared to all other classes, they get 2 more feats. Which, can be good, but is only +2 more ASI's than everyone else. Which isn't exactly breaking the bank.Also, Fighter's need an attack stat and con. This is the same for Rogues, Warlocks, Wizards, Sorcerers, Clerics, Druids, and Barbarians. Paladin and Ranger can get by with having a lower casting stat, Bards can be weird. So they aren't much less reliant than... most other classes.What abilities to increase skills and utility are Fighters getting? That's what I was listing for those other classes. You can't just say "stuff" and leave it at that.What? At level 1 a Fighter gets Three Masteries, which can be changed out on a long rest. At level 12.... they still are just getting Masteries. And these masteries aren't unique, because Barbarians have them, and Monks, Rangers and Paladins will have them. Yes, the Fighter can swap a mastery onto a weapon (with limits) on a long rest, but that doesn't actually give them anything NEW to do. If they wanted Push, they could have gotten Push at level 1 and Push never improves. They can never do more than that with the mastery. Yes, masteries are on the weapons, but most of the weapons are still VERY comparable. The difference between a Pike, a Glaive, and a Halberd is literally "do I want Push, Graze or Cleave". And that is a long rest change for anyone. Fighter  included. And, as you point out, everyone is going to have access to that feat, meaning that non-martials will also be able to get these, and also be able to switch them on a long rest. So... yes, after level 1, the Fighter is not gaining any NEW control options.No, I read it, little sick and tired of people thinking I can't read. You have to pick which single mastery activates when you make the attack. So, let me offer you this. You have a level 5 fighter. That fighter uses his Battleaxe to attack and activates topple. Then after the attack he stows his weapon. Then before his next attack he draws a Morningstar and attacks with sap. How is this any different in practical terms than having his battleaxe use topple and then his battleaxe use sap? What I wanted was the fighter to have their weapon and be able to activate sap AND topple on the same attack. That would be using two at once. not having two on the same weapon but STILL being limited to only activating a single one.</blockquote>

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