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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9012816" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Second Wind didn't get a buff. Second wind went from 1 per short rest, to 2 to 4 per long rest. But, if you were playing with the two short rests assumed, it went from 3 per day to 1 per day eventually scaling to 4 per day. That is not a large buff at all.Indomitable did get a buff. But, it is ultimately not affecting DPR. It is also attempting the same thing, it isn't like Indomitable isn't still improving fighter saves, it is just doing a better job of it. A good change, but not one that is going to be seen in a DPR analysisYes, the Champion got many many buffs. But the Champion =/= the Fighter. It is a fighter subclass. The next fighter subclass could be the Battlemaster and it could be utterly gutted. Again, look at my list on that post. I listed the level by level abilities of the fighter. They are nearly identical. The only new fighter ability is unconquerable, which is a bit of a frustrating design choice since it makes it difficult to work with second wind or give more uses of Indomitable sooner.I've explained this many times, but maybe this example will help. Do you know WHY the Great Weapon Master feat was widely considered the most powerful feat in 5e? Because when people were analyzing it, they initially only analyzed it with the Barbarian. The Barbarian after all, is the great weapon using class. And they couldn't get Great Weapon Master until 4th level, and do you know what every Barbarian had by 4th level? A reliable source of advantage. Of course, some people wanted to see this on the fighter. And it was largely regarded at the time that the Battlemaster was the only fighter worth even talking about in the optimization community. And do you know what the Battlemaster Fighter had by 4th level when they got Great Weapon Master? A large boost to hit from Precision Attack. So how did we ever figure out that GWM wasn't all that great if you didn't have those features? Well, someone sat down, and analyzed it WITHOUT the class features. They put it in isolation, and tested it. And through that process, they got a more accurate picture than the initial analysis did, because they weren't skewing the result with class features. And they could examine the class features, without skewing the results with feats. That is why analyzing things in isolation is useful</blockquote>

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