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<blockquote data-quote="Remathilis" data-source="post: 9018722" data-attributes="member: 7635">Depends what we're setting the limit at.Batman kicking a steel door off the hinges is probably a high DC strength check. There are lots of ways you could simulate that. Advantage on strength checks, add prof bonus to str checks to break or bash things. Make a battlemaster maneuver that targets objects. Allow a fighter to raise his strength above 20. These are all things the fighter as written could be given. And I'm sure if you gave any or all to the fighter, it wouldn't move the needle on people complaining the fighter is too weak.Which is where the &quot;the fighter must be supernatural&quot; comes from. You could have the fighter raise his strength and constitution to 30 and you're still going to have people complain it doesn't compare to a wizard's versatility. So if people are serious about &quot;fixing&quot; the problem, give them mythical abilities but explicitly say they are mythical. Then you can hurl boulders, jump mountains and make goblins pee their pants by gaze. But the problem is people still want fighters to do these things but represent Boromir or other nonmythical heroes. They don't want super soldiers or demigods or anything explicitly supernatural BUT they still want fighters to compete with the Masters of the Supernatural in spellcasters. They somehow want Drax and Hawkeye with the same power and versatility as Dr Strange. I'm sorry, I'll buy that Thor is an equal because he's a god or Captain Marvel because she's part Kree, but not &quot;...and I have a bow and arrow&quot; Hawkeye.So that's my line. Drop the notion that the fighter (and rogue) represents Boromir and Bilbo and make them Captain America and Black Widow. Super soldiers who are enhanced by things not of normal origin. But don't give me Hulk-like abilities and Faramir origins.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Remathilis, post: 9018722, member: 7635"] Depends what we're setting the limit at. Batman kicking a steel door off the hinges is probably a high DC strength check. There are lots of ways you could simulate that. Advantage on strength checks, add prof bonus to str checks to break or bash things. Make a battlemaster maneuver that targets objects. Allow a fighter to raise his strength above 20. These are all things the fighter as written could be given. And I'm sure if you gave any or all to the fighter, it wouldn't move the needle on people complaining the fighter is too weak. Which is where the "the fighter must be supernatural" comes from. You could have the fighter raise his strength and constitution to 30 and you're still going to have people complain it doesn't compare to a wizard's versatility. So if people are serious about "fixing" the problem, give them mythical abilities but [B][I]explicitly say they are mythical[/I][/B]. Then you can hurl boulders, jump mountains and make goblins pee their pants by gaze. But the problem is people still want fighters to do these things but represent Boromir or other nonmythical heroes. They don't want super soldiers or demigods or anything explicitly supernatural BUT they still want fighters to compete with the Masters of the Supernatural in spellcasters. They somehow want Drax and Hawkeye with the same power and versatility as Dr Strange. I'm sorry, I'll buy that Thor is an equal because he's a god or Captain Marvel because she's part Kree, but not "...and I have a bow and arrow" Hawkeye. So that's my line. Drop the notion that the fighter (and rogue) represents Boromir and Bilbo and make them Captain America and Black Widow. Super soldiers who are enhanced by things not of normal origin. But don't give me Hulk-like abilities and Faramir origins. [/QUOTE]

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