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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9018936" data-attributes="member: 6801228">I'm not gaslighting you. No one is asking for Wish. Justice and Rule was talking in generalities, about how any ability we give the roue can be explained with supernatural skill, that you do not need to go with explicit magic. The distinction is that of degree. If you say "I don't want even the best surgeon to be able to come close to True Ressurection remaking a body and bringing back someone 150 years dead" then most people would agree that's reasonable. But Raise Dead? Why not Raise Dead? It is a far more reasonable set of limitations, and something that makes sense for powerful surgeon characters to be able to do. So why insist on that level of dead? This is where I get frustrated, because we talk in some generalities, but then you come in with a "you can't because this EXTREME example I just made up would be ridiculous". It ends up being two different levels of discussion. On one hand, we want supernatural skills.On the other, we have to keep saying "No, we don't want the ability to rebuild people atom by atom with our hands" And you justify arguing against that point because "someone" will want it. No, we can't be done with the book club, because that is the ENTIRE point. Frankenstein discovered the secrets of life, so why can't my character, in a world where I can speak to the god who created me, not discover the secrets of life? And the entire reason you seem against it is that you want a solid, indisputable explanation already in hand for things that haven't even happened yet, for questions that may never get asked. Which seems backwards to me. Make the abilities first, then explain them after you make them. So just accept everything is magical, and stop trying to declare things make no sense. And if I ever encountered a game of 5e that felt like I was breezing through it with no risk, I'd let you know. But in near a decade of play it has never happened. Shift whatever you want, but stop acting like current casters are some brainless button spammers. That isn't how the design of the game currently stands.</blockquote>

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