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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9020440" data-attributes="member: 7030563">What he said was "pushing away and knocking prone a bunch of mooks that have surrounded them is an impossibility".That is simply false.  It may sound cool but it is not true.Attack- shove proneExtra Attack - unarmed strike with advantage because enemy is proneTavern Brawler Bonus action - grappleAction surge Attack - grapple 2nd guyactuon surge Extra attack - shove prone second guyThat is how the rules work, two opponents proned and grappled and an attack on one of them with advantage.  Now that  assumes all of those land, but with expertise and max strength, often advantage on athletics and allies using Hex or Silvery Barbs they usually do land.  I have missed and lost my bonus action grapple and I have failed a grapple check.  But most of the time I succeed.Thematically when I make  the unarmed strike I typically stomp on the prone guy.Combining prone and grapple will give an enemy permanent disadvantage attacking you (or anyone else), while you have permanent advantage attacking them.  You can do this to two enemies at once and with action surge you can put it in place on both in a single turn.  To break those conditions the enemy has to spend an entire action to TRY to remove the grapple and that will usually fail if you are a max strength fighter with athletics proficiency. That doesn't  always work, some enemies are too big to shove or grapple (although precious few if you are a rune knight), some enemies have teleportation to get out of it, some are immune, some don't use attacks, and sometimes other party members won't  want enemies prone, but this works effectively on a whole lot of enemies in a whole lot of situations.Any strength-based fighter can do this effectively, but if you optimize your build for it (Custom Rune Knight, unarmed combat, Skill Expert, Tavern Brawler, Grappler) I think the build is generally more powerful in combat than an optimized PAM-GWM fighter build while still being able to dish out great damage as any basic fighter when control is not the right move.  In addition you pick up two extra skill proficiencies in anything you want to boost out of combat skills.Ok so two things.  The poster did not say it wasn't practical, he said it was  impossible, those are different statements.Second I use action surge all the time to knock enemies prone.  It takes half movement to stand up from prone, which means if you knock an enemy prone you can usually prevent that enemy from attacking you on their turn by simply moving away.  Obviously that is situational and depends on the battlefield, but it absolutely false to say it is "especially terrible".For example if you are fighting 4 trolls and you use action surge and prone all of them and then use all your move to back up they get 4 opportunity attacks on you with disadvantage and they lose 12 attacks on their turn.  You are talking away a reaction and 8 attacks and giving them disadvantage on the 4 attacks they get.  If you have mobile or they have already used their reaction they don't  even get an opportunity attack with disadvantage.Is that better than using action surge to burn 4 attacks on a single troll?  It depends, but most of the time it is a lot better.  If I am using action surge it is usually to do something other than attack an enemy with a weapon two extra times.Using action surge just to attack is what is usually  "especially terrible".  Unless your attacks are doing something more than just damage or you are going to kill an enemy it is usually a waste when you can do so  much more with it.I don't see a problem at all with what I said.  If I am surrounded by 4 trolls I can do that at 5th level .... in a single turn.  If I am surrounded by 8 halflings I can do it at 20th level  .... in a single turn. And that is without any feats and that is also the maxiumum you can possibly be surrounded by. Most of the time you are surrounded it will be by fewer than that.As a point of fact it is not impossible.  It may be situationally impossible or improbable based on statistics, but it is not impossible.</blockquote>

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