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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9020638" data-attributes="member: 6801228">Then learn self-control. Seriously, if you don't want powerful fighters who can actually fulfill the fantasy of powerful fighters, then level cap them and then have the self-control to follow through with that. Stop insisting the rest of us have to be shackled to you.Drizz't beat Demogorgon? Hmm, that didn't show up before. Does Research Wow.... WOW.... talk about cherry-picking. To quote " Drizzt Do'Urden defeated Demogorgon in Menzoberranzan by acting as a conduit for a barrage of magical energy, released upon him and held by the kinetic barrier of an illithid hive-mind." So Driz'zt Defeats Demogorgon with the aid of an Ilithid hive-mind and did so by acting as a conduit for magical energy. Not because of his skills or talents or power, but because he was a basically a living lightning rod. Meanwhile, Raistlin solo's an aspect of Takhisis, a CR 30 aspect of a God. Totally comparable. As for the Ghost King... well, according to the wiki, that's just a flat lie. Again, quoting the wiki"Seeing his [Cadderly's] wife and some friends in danger, his need to act called out and something answered. Reciting off unknown spells, he creates a flying horse and carriage out of a cloud and rides down to rescue the fighters below displaying godlike power in the form of potent and great unknown spells.The Ghost King is defeated but escapes to the Shadowfell, where he recovers rapidly. He returns and is defeated a second time, disappearing to the Shadowfell again. Cadderly uses Catti-brie as a conduit to enter the Shadowfell to finish off the Ghost King. In the end, Cadderly defeats the Ghost King at the cost of his life and becomes the new Ghost King, forever reinforcing and guarding the ward containing the rift left by the old Ghost King."So, The Ghost King (an empowered Draco-lich) does not get defeated by Drizz'zt but by a 20th level cleric. Kelemvor became a god, multiple wizards have turned down godhood because it would make them too weak. (Raistlin famously) Erivis Cale did not defeat Mephistopheles, he was KILLED by Mephistopheles, and this was AFTER he had gained a shard of divinity. And, like you said, defeating Kesson Rel was a team effort, and one of the major people on that team was again a High level cleric, while another was the chosen of a god if I am reading the information correctly. Kesson Rel himself was a mutli-classed level 20 character. So, out of your seven I've already discussed in this post and others four of them, and I've shown that you have flat out been wrong about multiple feats. But let's look at Caramon Majere.... and I can't find a single notable fight for him. He doesn't even seem to kill a dragon in the entire saga. So, sure, he's famous, but looking around he's only supposed to be 12th level, so even if he did have some amazing fight to show how awesome he is... a 20th level fighter should be better. ......Oh my good frickin lord. Abdel Adrian IS LEVEL 3, MAYBE LEVEL 4!!!! You put a level 4 fighter down as an example of what a 20th level fighter should be!! And he is a Bhallspawn with magical powers!!!!You just listed well known fighters. That's all you did here, isn't it.Just to complete the list, Havilar's greatest feat.... killing a Mummy. And she didn't even do it, her sister did it with magic by blowing up a volcano. Havilar was defeated by a Succubus. Yeah, sure was easy to list all these people who AREN'T on the level of "personally fought an Archdevil to a standstill". The closest you got was Erevis Cale, who was killed by an Archdevil and only defeated a powerful mortal with a divine shard in them... with the help of a chosen of a god and a powerful priest.</blockquote>

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