Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
4 Hours w/ RSD - Escapist Bonus Column
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 7647722" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>Hmmm, yeah, I dunno. I don't see PF as a very effective entry product. In fact I see it as exactly the opposite, a very elaborate and obtuse system that is the culmination of 3 decades of ever more convolved rules systems. Even the BB is very complex system by RPG standards. It's a very time intensive and mastery rewarding system, not at all suited to be standard around which to build a revitalized TT RPG industry. </p><p></p><p>IMHO any such game is going to have to be more at the level of a Basic D&D. Tiered complexity, as Mike Mearls seems to be advocating these days, might be one approach. I'm sure either WotC, Paizo, or any number of other people could build such a system. It really isn't rocket science. Given that 3PPs have done that sort of thing already I'd venture that they lack the market clout and brand recognition to do anything to take advantage of it. Hasbro has the deep pockets, distribution, and most importantly the brand. Paizo has a good chunk of mindshare and is in pretty good shape. It remains to be seen if they can compete in the long run (or if perhaps Hasbro really would just withdraw from the market). Perhaps. Either company could use the OGL. Honestly if there's going to be some sort of last man standing there I'd bet on the larger stronger company. If a tiered game approach and digital tools etc are the wave of the future WotC so far is ahead there. </p><p></p><p>I think the other part of that question too is really who's property is more valuable? I see a lot of people say '4e is a market failure', but really, is that true? I am not at all convinced. I buy the argument that it isn't what Hasbro wants it to be, but it is a game with a large enthusiastic following and seems pretty amenable to being recast into this tiered sort of form, or even just stripped down and simplified. You could build a simplified d20 game too (they're all over the place for free), but I'd argue that the PF audience doesn't want Microlite d20. 4e is just a simpler and easier engine. Even if you dislike the gameplay of 4e itself it's still a better GAME.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 7647722, member: 82106"] Hmmm, yeah, I dunno. I don't see PF as a very effective entry product. In fact I see it as exactly the opposite, a very elaborate and obtuse system that is the culmination of 3 decades of ever more convolved rules systems. Even the BB is very complex system by RPG standards. It's a very time intensive and mastery rewarding system, not at all suited to be standard around which to build a revitalized TT RPG industry. IMHO any such game is going to have to be more at the level of a Basic D&D. Tiered complexity, as Mike Mearls seems to be advocating these days, might be one approach. I'm sure either WotC, Paizo, or any number of other people could build such a system. It really isn't rocket science. Given that 3PPs have done that sort of thing already I'd venture that they lack the market clout and brand recognition to do anything to take advantage of it. Hasbro has the deep pockets, distribution, and most importantly the brand. Paizo has a good chunk of mindshare and is in pretty good shape. It remains to be seen if they can compete in the long run (or if perhaps Hasbro really would just withdraw from the market). Perhaps. Either company could use the OGL. Honestly if there's going to be some sort of last man standing there I'd bet on the larger stronger company. If a tiered game approach and digital tools etc are the wave of the future WotC so far is ahead there. I think the other part of that question too is really who's property is more valuable? I see a lot of people say '4e is a market failure', but really, is that true? I am not at all convinced. I buy the argument that it isn't what Hasbro wants it to be, but it is a game with a large enthusiastic following and seems pretty amenable to being recast into this tiered sort of form, or even just stripped down and simplified. You could build a simplified d20 game too (they're all over the place for free), but I'd argue that the PF audience doesn't want Microlite d20. 4e is just a simpler and easier engine. Even if you dislike the gameplay of 4e itself it's still a better GAME. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*TTRPGs General
4 Hours w/ RSD - Escapist Bonus Column
Top