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<blockquote data-quote="Cergorach" data-source="post: 7647990" data-attributes="member: 725"><p>The problem with hardcore fans is that they generally are DMs and the center of many a web of gamers. If that hardcore fan is very against a product, chances are that the game isn't going to be played in that group or even club. I'm not saying that there are many, but a single DM can impact groups as large as 50+ players. As others have mentioned, folks have a hard time finding a group as a player, if you DM (and your any good at it) the situation is of course quite different. I would also say that a high percentage of ENworld readers are (partially) DMs. Would I mind playing in a fun 4E campaign, nope, would be fun I think. The problem is that I (like many) am the one that generally has to get the game started as a DM, when things have been going well for a while others tend to get interested in DMing (sometimes other gamesystems). Some of the DMs here would have single handedly sold a 100+ PHBs or Pathfinder core rulebooks just because they made up their minds on what to play. This wouldn't have to be a big deal, if it weren't for the other things that happened. I found the GSL a strike against 4E, but I still bought into 4E because it was D&D, others weren't that attached to brand loyalty as I was.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Why is/was the demographic shrinking? While I don't disagree, it's still a rather large demographic for the TRPG industry, and it hurts a lot when you loose half your customers/sales to a brand new competitor (Paizo/Pathfinder). 2E by 1996 wasn't exactly big, but still bigger then all the RPG competitor companies. 3E attracted a lot of new and old gamers, it wouldn't surprise me in the least that 4E could have done the same. I think part of the problem with 4E is Hasbro and it's directives, independent WotC always seemed far more agile then WotC/Hasbro (or even TSR) every did.</p><p></p><p>At every version you also gain some people, I don't think that the problem ever was how many you lost to an old edition, you gained enough with the new. Sure there are folks still playing 3.5E, but I don't think it's a bigger percentage then 2E players during the 4th year of the 3E hype.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Cergorach, post: 7647990, member: 725"] The problem with hardcore fans is that they generally are DMs and the center of many a web of gamers. If that hardcore fan is very against a product, chances are that the game isn't going to be played in that group or even club. I'm not saying that there are many, but a single DM can impact groups as large as 50+ players. As others have mentioned, folks have a hard time finding a group as a player, if you DM (and your any good at it) the situation is of course quite different. I would also say that a high percentage of ENworld readers are (partially) DMs. Would I mind playing in a fun 4E campaign, nope, would be fun I think. The problem is that I (like many) am the one that generally has to get the game started as a DM, when things have been going well for a while others tend to get interested in DMing (sometimes other gamesystems). Some of the DMs here would have single handedly sold a 100+ PHBs or Pathfinder core rulebooks just because they made up their minds on what to play. This wouldn't have to be a big deal, if it weren't for the other things that happened. I found the GSL a strike against 4E, but I still bought into 4E because it was D&D, others weren't that attached to brand loyalty as I was. Why is/was the demographic shrinking? While I don't disagree, it's still a rather large demographic for the TRPG industry, and it hurts a lot when you loose half your customers/sales to a brand new competitor (Paizo/Pathfinder). 2E by 1996 wasn't exactly big, but still bigger then all the RPG competitor companies. 3E attracted a lot of new and old gamers, it wouldn't surprise me in the least that 4E could have done the same. I think part of the problem with 4E is Hasbro and it's directives, independent WotC always seemed far more agile then WotC/Hasbro (or even TSR) every did. At every version you also gain some people, I don't think that the problem ever was how many you lost to an old edition, you gained enough with the new. Sure there are folks still playing 3.5E, but I don't think it's a bigger percentage then 2E players during the 4th year of the 3E hype. [/QUOTE]
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